Hall sensor

[Keith Baxter]

Hi,

Let me clarify.

1) The dataref needs to be read when the auto-throttle is driving the nema 17 motor, hence the throttle lever. You cannot move the leaver manually when in this mode.
2) The dataref need to be written to when the auto-throttle is disengaged and the throttle operated manually. In this mode you can operate the throttle levers. I want to read the position of the lever so that I can write to the dataref to apply throttle to the sim.

So from the closed loop I want to write 0-1 to drive the motor and I want to read 0-1 to write to the dataref when in manual mode.

Keith

[Ralph]

The motor itself has no idea where it is. That information has to come from a potentiometer or hall sensor, so you don't need any special API for that.

[SimPassion]

The motor itself has no idea where it is. That information has to come from a potentiometer or hall sensor, so you don't need any special API for that.

Thanks for this info Ralph, which clarify in mind

[Sling]

Makes total sense Keith but as Ralph said the stepper is dumb and has no idea where it is. You need an additional position sensor that you can read.

[wendy]

@Keith Baxter

This might be of interest to others that want to build small steam gauges. @wendy you used these?
https://leobot.net/viewproduct.aspx?id=2697

No I did not use those but a flat, small square stepper. But nice find, 200 steps/rev, easy to convert that to 3200 steps to have really smooth gauges.

[jph]

Hi,

Let me clarify.

1) The dataref needs to be read when the auto-throttle is driving the nema 17 motor, hence the throttle lever. You cannot move the leaver manually when in this mode.
2) The dataref need to be written to when the auto-throttle is disengaged and the throttle operated manually. In this mode you can operate the throttle levers. I want to read the position of the lever so that I can write to the dataref to apply throttle to the sim.

So from the closed loop I want to write 0-1 to drive the motor and I want to read 0-1 to write to the dataref when in manual mode.

Keith

Please let me clarify -
first, you do NOT need closed loop for the simple task you seem to want, it is pointless.. If you need to know what closed loop is, then please ask and I will attempt to explain.
ALL you need is a positional sensor. The output from that will ALWAYS correspond to your lever position. You can use a hall effect dedicated position 'ASxxx' type unit, or even, in your case a simple 'pot' would suffice and be easier for you to program.
The stepper is of no consequence. The stepper driver controls (along with the stepper motor hard step) the angle of step, hence the apparent 'smoothness' of the motion to a certain degree. This is called micro stepping, again, if you do not know or understand then please ask and I can explain.

I think in your case, use a simple potentiometer as the feedback.
As you would be - supposedly using - the V66 aspect of AM, then you would be well advised to consider speed of pulses - either by microstep alteration of 'speed of pulse' repetition as the real circuit uses PID. You only need to closely match the sim variation so it isn't a big deal as all the info is provided for you. The 'speed' of the movement of the power lever is not constant. Also, you CAN and should be able to move the power lever when in AT so you need some form of clutch slip mechanism. That would normally dictate that the positional sensor is on the lever arm itself and the stepper is ignored for this purpose.
Enjoy.
Joe

[Keith Baxter]

@jph Joe.

Thank you for your input.

The original design calls for .... Note there are 4 motors of this type and 2 pancake nema 17's
1) Nema 17 motor 1,8
2) Hall sensor P3022-V1-CW360
3) Motor driver TB6600 Driver

However to get the hall sensor and driver is very costly. So I am looking for alternatives.

Let's show the design so that all get the gist.
This image shows the Nema 17 in the (red slider and green bracket) and the hall sensor in the (yellow slider and green bracket).

This image shows tho other side with the throttle lever/gear connecting the motor and the hall sensor.

Now due to price and reduction in wiring within the unit I was hoping to use one of these.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003 ... 3403097635

That would (if possible) take away the hall sensor and reduce the wires to the motor at 1/4 of the cost.

I suppose I could add a 10K pot in place of the hall sensor but if there is a signal from that board that would make for 1 less wire.

Would be great if you could explain the pin-out of that unit please.

Keith

EDIT:

[SimPassion]

.../...
As said, send me your details via PM and I am happy to send you an AS5600 to play with. No worries
Joe

Thanks for the offer Joe, though after going more in deep on my maintenance task on proximity sensor, I've realized I would rather need real hall sensor with varying values for this throttle project, rather than only 0-1 states due to the rods move and displacement on longitudinal axis, so I have to decipher a bit and retrieve my reference on what I've already elaborated in the past.

[jph]

.../...
As said, send me your details via PM and I am happy to send you an AS5600 to play with. No worries
Joe

Thanks for the offer Joe, though after going more in deep on my maintenance task on proximity sensor, I've realized I would rather need real hall sensor with varying values for this throttle project, rather than only 0-1 states due to the rods move and displacement on longitudinal axis, so I have to decipher a bit and retrieve my reference on what I've already elaborated in the past.

Hello Gilles,
The as5600 offer a multitude of outputs, you can have a literal 'degree - or less' - an analogue value - anything. There is no 0 or 1 output - it is a full control unit in a single chip . It only needs a single first calibration (offline). It can handle multiple turns, or can be set to an arc in a simple method that is set to the onboard eeprom that will never change. You can read the output via analogue or digital data steam.
Maybe we are not on the same wavelength ? but it would appear to me the AS unit offer everything you need and more.
Please can you give me an example of what you are accomplishing ? Maybe I have misunderstood ?.
Joe

[jph]

@jph Joe.

Thank you for your input.

The original design calls for .... Note there are 4 motors of this type and 2 pancake nema 17's
1) Nema 17 motor 1,8
2) Hall sensor P3022-V1-CW360
3) Motor driver TB6600 Driver

However to get the hall sensor and driver is very costly. So I am looking for alternatives.

Let's show the design so that all get the gist.
This image shows the Nema 17 in the (red slider and green bracket) and the hall sensor in the (yellow slider and green bracket).

ice_screenshot_20230330-105704.png

This image shows tho other side with the throttle lever/gear connecting the motor and the hall sensor.


ice_screenshot_20230330-105753.png

Now due to price and reduction in wiring within the unit I was hoping to use one of these.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003 ... 3403097635

That would (if possible) take away the hall sensor and reduce the wires to the motor at 1/4 of the cost.

I suppose I could add a 10K pot in place of the hall sensor but if there is a signal from that board that would make for 1 less wire.

Would be great if you could explain the pin-out of that unit please.

Keith

EDIT:

Hi Keith,
There isn't even a real reason to use a stepper motor at all apart from it is easier to drive with AM rather than a simple DC motor which would be more than adequate. (I am planning on using DC motors as the drives in mine along with the AS hall units mounted on the throttle arms. Again, pots could be used but the as are probably cheaper than a good quality pot.
Rather than the number of steps, it is more import to know the 'destination' value of the arc of travel of the lever arm - or simply position in whatever units you decide to use. How it gets there - stepper motor or dc motor is irrelevant really.
My design uses DC motors and AS hall units for the auto throttle along with a (to be decided) slip clutch.
I am aware that using Karl's design offers a few issues in that there is limited space, or more rightly, space assigned into the 3d printing. I haven't decided yet to use Karl's current version as it is lacking in the slope angles of the markers on the pilot facing surfaces for the markers, and also, backlighting. He is supposedly planning another version. Even then, I would - personally - rip out the interior where needed to accommodate what I needed. A huge error in his design is the speed and power of the trim wheels. It is simply not possible with his design and configuration to produce anything like a realistic trim wheel speed, and again, no manual override is possible due to lack of slip clutches. This makes a really unrealistic unit when in operation.

After the Aus' F1 this weekend I will happily take a deeper delve into the images and the last post and try to offer useful comments.
Cheers,
Joe