MSFS 2020 40th Anniversary Build & Helicopters Tips for Joystick Axis binding

You can talk about anything flight (simulation) related here

Moderators: russ, Ralph

Message
Author
SimPassion
Posts: 5336
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:22 am

Re: MSFS 2020 40th Anniversary Build & Helicopters Tips for Joystick Axis binding

#21 Post by SimPassion »

Ralph wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:15 pm Okay I have turned those off, that makes a little bit of a difference. But when I pull full collective in the 407, I don't have the idea that I have to give more pedals, that setting seems to stay the same. I also don't notice much difference in pedal input when changing speed. And still no translational lift.

It feels like the helicopters in the FSX era :)

I saw some stuff on Facebook, all sorts of work-arounds to make it better. Seems like Microsoft still has some work to do.

@jph I think I noticed settling with power. Low rotor RPM doesn't seem to be possible, you can pull as much torque as you want, the RPM does not change. It's very much a game.
Hi Ralph, did you re set binding as mentioned previously ?

These are new binding and we have to :
  1. Create a new joystick profile for both 40th Anniversary Build helicopters, so only the new Cabri and 407 (Use Manage Preset, then copy and rename)
  2. Unbind previous axis for cyclic, collective, throttle, rudder
  3. Eventually re bind to the following newly available axis below
Notice Collective and Throttle are two (2x) separate axis
  • TAIL ROTOR AXIS
  • SET CYCLIC LONGITUDINAL AXIS
  • SET CYCLIC LATERAL AXIS
  • SET HELICOPTER THROTTLE AXIS
  • COLLECTIVE AXIS
Otherwise than this whole re binding, would stay an improper settings for these two new helicopters and also for future helicopters from ASOBO/MICROSOFT

image.png
image.png
image.png

Set as required for throttle, one axis now and two axis for future helicopters in default MSFS

image.png
image.png
 

SimPassion
Posts: 5336
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:22 am

Re: MSFS 2020 40th Anniversary Build & Helicopters Tips for Joystick Axis binding

#22 Post by SimPassion »

Ralph wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:15 pm Low rotor RPM doesn't seem to be possible, you can pull as much torque as you want, the RPM does not change. It's very much a game.
I've seen an issue with the throttle axis, which doesn't seems to bind properly in the Bell 407 (could be only an ASOBO design for the Cabri G2 and future other helicopter, so, not used by MS/NEMETH DESIGNS for the 407)
Even with FADEC on MANUAL, there's no change on the throttle grip, nor on RPM
Just trying to search a solution and figure out if this is a bug or not, or if exists another binding specific to the 407

Last minute : it looks like this is not modeled at the moment in the 407, as the throttle grip is rotating using the mouse, though doesn't produce any change on RPM, even with FADEC on MANUAL

[EDIT] In any case, the HELICOPTER THROTTLE AXIS could be very well not used at all in the Bell 407 from MS/Nemeth Designs ... just a thought
It works in the Cabri G2 which get separate Throttle and Collective using the two distinct axis binding

[EDIT2] Found at the moment, the HELICOPTER THROTTLE AXIS only impact quickly NG RPM % / MGT Temp / TRQ % in the Bell 407 and again, doesn't interact visually with throttle grip in the cockpit unlike in the Cabri G2

[EDIT3] Read this today which confirm throttle is not yet handled properly
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/he ... flight2020
 
Last edited by SimPassion on Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SimPassion
Posts: 5336
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:22 am

Re: MSFS 2020 40th Anniversary Build & Helicopters Tips for Joystick Axis binding

#23 Post by SimPassion »

For even more realism, don't miss to switch to LEGACY mode, then again to MODERN as explained here : https://siminnovations.com/forums/viewt ... 312#p50312
image.png
Last edited by SimPassion on Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

SimPassion
Posts: 5336
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:22 am

Re: MSFS 2020 40th Anniversary Build Release Times

#24 Post by SimPassion »

Sling wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:35 am I don’t think the flight models are that detailed but they fly alright for a first iteration I guess. You need to map those trims and use them to take away constant deflection. Forward cyclic seems to be the worst one.
Hi Tony

I eventually set all these binding, though still find difficult to get the proper attitude stabilized and indeed the one which is far from expected is the longitudinal on cyclic
I found the SET ROTOR LONGITUDINAL TRIM on flightsimulator forums, but can't achieve to get a proper behavior, which would get the helicopter nose down a bit and stabilized to fly forward at max allowed speed, together with a proper horizontal flight path
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/of ... 554987/155

image.png

Some explanations through the link provided in flighsimulator forums, though this seems to be a bit different of what should occurs in MSFS



https://youtu.be/4AXZw3q7xvo?t=28
 

SimPassion
Posts: 5336
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:22 am

Re: MSFS 2020 40th Anniversary Build & Helicopters Tips for Joystick Axis binding

#25 Post by SimPassion »

So they eventually conclude, it was only a Trim reset and not a Force Trim : https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/of ... 554987/359
Wrong path ...

the SET ROTOR LONGITUDINAL TRIM should have been : RESET ROTOR LONGITUDINAL TRIM

[EDIT] Waiting for better, this would help a bit : https://flightsim.to/file/43693/bell-40 ... vement-mod

Bell 407 improvement mod


Hi. This mod improves the Bell 407 behaviour in relation to a couple of things that bugged me with the original one. 1. Torque. You can overtorque now. Before, full collective would render you uhmm 85% torque. Which is...

User avatar
Sling
Posts: 5237
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:37 pm
Contact:

Re: MSFS 2020 40th Anniversary Build & Helicopters Tips for Joystick Axis binding

#26 Post by Sling »

I thought there as a separate reset for the trims. Let me check what I set when I next open the sim tomorrow.

SimPassion
Posts: 5336
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:22 am

Re: MSFS 2020 40th Anniversary Build & Helicopters Tips for Joystick Axis binding

#27 Post by SimPassion »

Sling wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:37 pm I thought there as a separate reset for the trims. Let me check what I set when I next open the sim tomorrow.
Currently what is named SET ROTOR LONGITUDINAL TRIM, is acting as a RESET, so what is really missed is the ability to "SET" and keep the TRIM in its current state, which would allow to release the stick returning on its default center position, due to internal springs present in most of simmers joystick, this indeed wouldn't de activate the nose pitch if on Force Trim and yes we can remove springs, but we miss the versatility to use the stick in either aircraft or helicopter. In any case I've removed default spring in my Hotas Joystick and there's still some force making it to return in other location than the one I would keep it to stay, when using Force Trim feature, which isn't currently available in MSFS (false expectation)

User avatar
Ralph
Posts: 7878
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: De Steeg
Contact:

Re: MSFS 2020 40th Anniversary Build & Helicopters Tips for Joystick Axis binding

#28 Post by Ralph »

I already a community plugin, that should improve the 407. I'll try again when they've made some updates.

User avatar
Keith Baxter
Posts: 4674
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:00 am
Location: Botswana

Re: MSFS 2020 40th Anniversary Build & Helicopters Tips for Joystick Axis binding

#29 Post by Keith Baxter »

Ralph wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:22 pm I already a community plugin, that should improve the 407. I'll try again when they've made some updates.
For me, time would be better spent getting the video to work in AM4.2 than fiddling with this.

I, being a little bit of ass, wonder why so much air is given to this ...... :mrgreen:

Keith
AMD RYZEN 9 5950X CPU, Corsair H80I cooler, ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PLUS AMD Ryzen Mother Board,  32Gb ram Corsair Vengeance 3000Mh, MSI GTX960 4G graphics card 

User avatar
Ralph
Posts: 7878
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: De Steeg
Contact:

Re: MSFS 2020 40th Anniversary Build & Helicopters Tips for Joystick Axis binding

#30 Post by Ralph »

I have spend 15 minutes in MSFS with the helicopters, so not much loss there ;)

Post Reply