I'm trying to get Airmanager, Realsimgear, and foreflight working with MSFS2020. The issue is if I have in my community folder the airmanager plugin and realsimgear plugin then none of the simconnect software that will feed foreflight will connect (flight events, fs2ff etc). If I remove the airmanager plugin from the community folder then the realsimgear devices work, and I can connect several sim connect clients with no problem) If I remove the realsim gear plugin then I can connect airmanager and foreflight.
There is something about having both airmanager and realsimgear set up that prevents any other sim connect clients from connecting.
My first thought is I'm pretty sure realsimgear 430 has an arduino in it, is it possible to flash it and set it up in air manager? is there a write up on that I thought I saw one at one time but can't find it. And if you flash it is there a way to restore it to realsimgear firmware (I know there are some methods to back up an arduino firmware so that may be the best option there)
Airmanger + realsimgear + foreflight MSFS2020
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Aviator857
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- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:15 am
Re: Airmanger + realsimgear + foreflight MSFS2020
Hi,
I am sure it is 100% possible to redo the realsimgear with AM if there is an arduino in it but it would be something you would need to work through to reverse engineer the schematic, which should be very simple. The LCD is a cheap 30 euro HDMI unit so you can ignore that as it is simply for a popout screen.
I doubt it actually has an 'arduino' but it may well have the same processor. Whichever, it looks like it would be simple to convert to AM.
BUT - NOTE - IF the realsimgear unit has the code lock flags set then you will not be able to download the firmware, or it may use a custom bootloader that would be overwritten. It depends entirely on what they are doing. It could well be a one way trip but a trip for the better I am sure.
If it was out of warranty I would just rebuild it with AM. It looks to be a 30 euro HDMI screen and some basic interfaced encoders and buttons but I would be perfectly happy with that. It is not something you would get a step by step instruction for, but again, it should be simple if you are fully conversant with basic hardware and signal / connection tracing. Take it apart and post some images. (again, if out of warranty and you are comfortable doing that)
What you are probably seeing is issues with programs playing nicely together with USB Serial port enumeration issues where once a port is grabbed by another program it is unavailable to a different a program until released. This causes many problems when 'scanning' for connected devices.
This is one of many reasons why I would only use Pi PICO units with AM for any new build (apart from when needing messagport where I HAVE to use arduino) - The Pico with AM DONT use bloody serial ! so no enumeration issues
It should be the responsibility of realsimgear to ensure that any product they sell with USB has an appropriate Vendor and device ID from the USB registration. (I haven't used their gear so I cannot say for sure they do not have a vendor ID etc, but I very very much doubt it - in fact I would be amazed if they did
) This is expensive though for small business so they just use generic usb ID which is actually only the ID of the USB serial converter vendor so meaningless really. Multiple vendors trying to do automatic detection of generic usb serial converters, each with the same VID etc is a recipe for disaster. RSG should be using a VID or a far less aggressive detection.
Joe
I am sure it is 100% possible to redo the realsimgear with AM if there is an arduino in it but it would be something you would need to work through to reverse engineer the schematic, which should be very simple. The LCD is a cheap 30 euro HDMI unit so you can ignore that as it is simply for a popout screen.
I doubt it actually has an 'arduino' but it may well have the same processor. Whichever, it looks like it would be simple to convert to AM.
BUT - NOTE - IF the realsimgear unit has the code lock flags set then you will not be able to download the firmware, or it may use a custom bootloader that would be overwritten. It depends entirely on what they are doing. It could well be a one way trip but a trip for the better I am sure.
If it was out of warranty I would just rebuild it with AM. It looks to be a 30 euro HDMI screen and some basic interfaced encoders and buttons but I would be perfectly happy with that. It is not something you would get a step by step instruction for, but again, it should be simple if you are fully conversant with basic hardware and signal / connection tracing. Take it apart and post some images. (again, if out of warranty and you are comfortable doing that)
What you are probably seeing is issues with programs playing nicely together with USB Serial port enumeration issues where once a port is grabbed by another program it is unavailable to a different a program until released. This causes many problems when 'scanning' for connected devices.
This is one of many reasons why I would only use Pi PICO units with AM for any new build (apart from when needing messagport where I HAVE to use arduino) - The Pico with AM DONT use bloody serial ! so no enumeration issues
It should be the responsibility of realsimgear to ensure that any product they sell with USB has an appropriate Vendor and device ID from the USB registration. (I haven't used their gear so I cannot say for sure they do not have a vendor ID etc, but I very very much doubt it - in fact I would be amazed if they did
) This is expensive though for small business so they just use generic usb ID which is actually only the ID of the USB serial converter vendor so meaningless really. Multiple vendors trying to do automatic detection of generic usb serial converters, each with the same VID etc is a recipe for disaster. RSG should be using a VID or a far less aggressive detection.Joe
Joe. CISSP, MSc.
Re: Airmanger + realsimgear + foreflight MSFS2020
I just looked at the firmware and loader for the 430 and it appears to be standard avrdude so it should be possible to re-flash their firmware if needed.
Also looking at the case design it may very well be a standard arduino Mega or similar in there.
If that's the case then remove it and replace it with another with AM flashed and save the original. Would be interesting to see inside.
Also looking at the case design it may very well be a standard arduino Mega or similar in there.
If that's the case then remove it and replace it with another with AM flashed and save the original. Would be interesting to see inside.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.
Re: Airmanger + realsimgear + foreflight MSFS2020
There are lots of people using for example Mobiflight and Air Manager together, and I'm pretty sure that the combination RealSimGear and Air Manager also exists. There's nothing in our plugin that obstructs this.
As I've said many times on this forums, it happens now and then that people think that our software does something similar like this, but it has never been the case. The problem was always somewhere else.
Maybe RealSimGear has an idea.
As I've said many times on this forums, it happens now and then that people think that our software does something similar like this, but it has never been the case. The problem was always somewhere else.
Maybe RealSimGear has an idea.
Re: Airmanger + realsimgear + foreflight MSFS2020
My thoughts exactly.
- I think they may be a bit 'keen' to hold the ports................... 
Joe. CISSP, MSc.
Re: Airmanger + realsimgear + foreflight MSFS2020
As Joe mentioned, it is possible to flash your RealSimGear bezel with Air Manager, and you can also 'flash it back' to their firmware if required with the tool from RSG. But I'm not sure what type of Arduino they are using, and which pins. So it will be a little of a trial and error situation. The first step would be to find out which type of Arduino (or actually chip) it is, I suspect that it is a Uno.
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Aviator857
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:15 am
Re: Airmanger + realsimgear + foreflight MSFS2020
The issue is with both running then other simconnect clients will no longer work. I'm sure its not one thing that air manager is doing, and probably no one thing realsimgear is doing. I'm going to set it up clean on a different computer this weekend so I can add until it breaks its just a very time consuming process as msfs2020 doesn't open quickly.
I doubt its a USB serial conflict as the Realsim Gear 430 and airmanager controlled instrument panel works. All the other usb devices work just fine and there are no com port conflicts. Realsim is on com 8 and the arduino running the rest of the items are on com 5. The Flight Events of fs2ff simply brodcast the adsb data on the network copying the Stratus protocol that is used IRL. So unless simconnect clients such as fs2ff have some un used USB serial port code the serial conflicts should not be at play.
Issue I'm running into is each are paid programs and Realsim's answer was simply Sim Connect is a multi client protocol so the issue isn't on our side... well I know its a multi client protocol.
Its likely some short coming in the MSFS SDK as it seems to always be in flux.
I'm comfortable with reverse engineering the hardware (I have multi meters, oscilloscopes, and high end soldering equipment) and modifying the software (at least anything that I can get source code to) as my day job is as a software developer. I also have a SEL PPL. Not too concerned about the warranty etc either. The easiest solution for me would to be able to pin point what resource causes the simconnect protocol to be blocked with both running and fix that. I thought I saw a write up at one point on flashing the realsimgear but I can't find it, if someone has a link to that it would be helpful, otherwise lets table that and focus on how the software layer.
The other option would be to add to airmanager the "status/adsb" network broad cast which would be useful overall to reduce the number of programs needed and would allow foreflight and other EFB apps to connect to the sim.
I doubt its a USB serial conflict as the Realsim Gear 430 and airmanager controlled instrument panel works. All the other usb devices work just fine and there are no com port conflicts. Realsim is on com 8 and the arduino running the rest of the items are on com 5. The Flight Events of fs2ff simply brodcast the adsb data on the network copying the Stratus protocol that is used IRL. So unless simconnect clients such as fs2ff have some un used USB serial port code the serial conflicts should not be at play.
Issue I'm running into is each are paid programs and Realsim's answer was simply Sim Connect is a multi client protocol so the issue isn't on our side... well I know its a multi client protocol.
Its likely some short coming in the MSFS SDK as it seems to always be in flux.
I'm comfortable with reverse engineering the hardware (I have multi meters, oscilloscopes, and high end soldering equipment) and modifying the software (at least anything that I can get source code to) as my day job is as a software developer. I also have a SEL PPL. Not too concerned about the warranty etc either. The easiest solution for me would to be able to pin point what resource causes the simconnect protocol to be blocked with both running and fix that. I thought I saw a write up at one point on flashing the realsimgear but I can't find it, if someone has a link to that it would be helpful, otherwise lets table that and focus on how the software layer.
The other option would be to add to airmanager the "status/adsb" network broad cast which would be useful overall to reduce the number of programs needed and would allow foreflight and other EFB apps to connect to the sim.
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Aviator857
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:15 am
Re: Airmanger + realsimgear + foreflight MSFS2020
Just to clarify I did start with realsimgear and the "ruled" themselves out as the issue. Not that I buy that 100% but I have asked them.
Not that it matters much but this the set up.
Not that it matters much but this the set up.
Re: Airmanger + realsimgear + foreflight MSFS2020
You are misunderstanding, it is not a conflict with USB devices, it is RSG's method of scanning for their own equipment which is holding ports open unnecessarily. Whilst a port id open it is not available to other applications. Because they sell equipment with a USB connection but DON'T have a vendor ID / Device ID as per USB specification then their device can only be identified by physically querying or listening on EVERY non VID specific open ports - ie - ALL arduino etc.
AM and MOBI have no issues and both do the same, but in a non aggressive and controlled way. There is no agreed standard for this and never will be. It is up to people to play fair. It appears that AM and MOBI - DO - play fair with their port / device queries ... ergo................ 
Nothing needs adding to air manager or changing in air manager.
As for flashing and programming it, easiest way is take a few images of the guts of it and all should be revealed
Joe
AM and MOBI have no issues and both do the same, but in a non aggressive and controlled way. There is no agreed standard for this and never will be. It is up to people to play fair. It appears that AM and MOBI - DO - play fair with their port / device queries ... ergo................
Nothing needs adding to air manager or changing in air manager.
As for flashing and programming it, easiest way is take a few images of the guts of it and all should be revealed
Joe
Joe. CISSP, MSc.
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Aviator857
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:15 am
Re: Airmanger + realsimgear + foreflight MSFS2020
Ok, what do you mean by "port" are you talking a sim connect socket, or or you talking about serial ports? If you are talking serial ports that is handled I know it aggressively scans that. If you are talking sim connect "ports' then locking the connections would make sense.
From my point of view I'm looking at 3 black boxes. If this was open source I could isolate it. The variable I think you are missing is if I remove air manager from the community folder and run realsimgear app/plugin I can then connect flight events, fs2ff, and a few other random sim connect clients I tried to see if I can load it up. So why does removing the airmanager from the community folder make everything else work? The same thing goes with running airmanager, no realsimgear then I can run all the other simconnect clients I want. If it was entirely RSG's aggressive port locking then one would think that realsimgear only would block the other sim connect apps but it does not.
Actually digging through the simconnect API I think I may have an answer, I need to look at MSFS specifically and see if I can access what I need to make a change and report back if that is a fix.
From my point of view I'm looking at 3 black boxes. If this was open source I could isolate it. The variable I think you are missing is if I remove air manager from the community folder and run realsimgear app/plugin I can then connect flight events, fs2ff, and a few other random sim connect clients I tried to see if I can load it up. So why does removing the airmanager from the community folder make everything else work? The same thing goes with running airmanager, no realsimgear then I can run all the other simconnect clients I want. If it was entirely RSG's aggressive port locking then one would think that realsimgear only would block the other sim connect apps but it does not.
Actually digging through the simconnect API I think I may have an answer, I need to look at MSFS specifically and see if I can access what I need to make a change and report back if that is a fix.