"Hardware Instruments" or what....

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Keith Baxter
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"Hardware Instruments" or what....

#1 Post by Keith Baxter »

Hi,

Not sure how to get this point across, lets give it a one shot so that I do not try and create new appetite over and over.

We have "hardware function" in our create/edit tab in the console but not a "Hardware instrument".
What is the difference?
Simply one is a hardware function and the other a hardware instrument.

It is obvious the time and effort @Corjan and @Ralph put into the "Hardware function" was as a helper for members. Not as a hardware instrument depository ..

That brings up the question. Should "HARDWARE INSTRUMENTS" be included in this group? I say NO as these are "INSTRUMENTS" and not "INSTRUMENT FUNCTIONS".

The opposite applies I suppose.

That brings up another question. Should instruments have hardware code in them?
"Hardware function", throws out an error if canvas_draw() or any graphic display is attempted and the instrument does not work. Should we be consistent and throw out instruments that have hardware code ;) I say yes.

A stand alone instrument is developed by a source. For example lets take a simple chronometer. This instrument is intended to be used with a RPi or a separate hdmi screen.Remember this instrument is stand alone. The graphics and the code need to be contained within a single instrument/group.

I understand that in the past peeps tried to help by combining hardware functions into instruments as a hack. Not sure that is very user friendly and for users looking specifically for hardware instrument options, very few available.

I propose a separate group for hardware instruments and hardware functions become INOP in general instruments just like instruments become INOP in hardware functions.

The addition of build and other files to the instrument is another discussion. But It might be that this group could be excluded from certain apps/devices or some other innovative way to reduce database size..

Keith
Last edited by Keith Baxter on Wed Mar 23, 2022 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jph
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Re: "Hardware Instruments" or what....

#2 Post by jph »

If I understand you correctly, as there seems to be a lot of 'around the houses' over various threads... ;)

Then - the reality is -

Very few people are going to build to 'build' a hardware instrument using - for example a 3d print file (stl etc) along with a PCB design etc etc etc. Especially a pcb design which usually is simply not needed. - OR if they really wanted a PCB then most would almost certainly prefer to buy one - and if that was the case then sell them on ebay.
IF someone has developed a 'piece of hardware' that can be controlled from AM then great !, but, what to do with it and where to locate the data etc ?
Well. The STL files for all the parts can go on 'thingyverse' where they would be the most useful as MANY would certainly not want to add a PCB.
The rest - and even the STL files as well - can go in a specific thread for just this purpose. Each topic a different instrument. It works on many sites where the very first post of the thread is the one with the latest information and is updated as needed. Examples of such can readily be seen on eevblog as in 'this' example - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ ... -for-free/ of a huge thread about hacking a Hantek scope for higher bandwidth. The FIRST POST always contains the latest updates.
All can be included in a single thread per instrument or bit of hardware.
Also, doesn't the 'discard' give you the opportunity to do whatever you need ? :shock:
I think it is a VERY VERY limited use case and can EASILY be covered in these very forums. Just add a topic called 'hardware instruments' -- Job sorted.
Again, I don't mean to piss on anybody's chips but it is fringe stuff really.
Joe.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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Keith Baxter
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Re: "Hardware Instruments" or what....

#3 Post by Keith Baxter »

jph wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 2:06 pm If I understand you correctly, as there seems to be a lot of 'around the houses' over various threads... ;)

Then - the reality is -

Very few people are going to build to 'build' a hardware instrument using - for example a 3d print file (stl etc) along with a PCB design etc etc etc. Especially a pcb design which usually is simply not needed. - OR if they really wanted a PCB then most would almost certainly prefer to buy one - and if that was the case then sell them on ebay.
IF someone has developed a 'piece of hardware' that can be controlled from AM then great !, but, what to do with it and where to locate the data etc ?
Well. The STL files for all the parts can go on 'thingyverse' where they would be the most useful as MANY would certainly not want to add a PCB.
The rest - and even the STL files as well - can go in a specific thread for just this purpose. Each topic a different instrument. It works on many sites where the very first post of the thread is the one with the latest information and is updated as needed. Examples of such can readily be seen on eevblog as in 'this' example - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ ... -for-free/ of a huge thread about hacking a Hantek scope for higher bandwidth. The FIRST POST always contains the latest updates.
All can be included in a single thread per instrument or bit of hardware.
Also, doesn't the 'discard' give you the opportunity to do whatever you need ? :shock:
I think it is a VERY VERY limited use case and can EASILY be covered in these very forums. Just add a topic called 'hardware instruments' -- Job sorted.
Again, I don't mean to piss on anybody's chips but it is fringe stuff really.
Joe.
No Joe,

You understand incorrect.

I want hardware "FUNCTIONS" and "INSTRUMENTS" separated. I take it you understand the difference between the two.

Your OT argument has some merit. However, info scattered all over the net is not user friendly. Where should the build be placed.
From a SI viewpoint, I would think that all the bits to build a instrument that has AM code is available right here. Not all over the net.

Peeps asking on FB, WatsApp & other media groups should be directed RIGHT HERE where there are a variety of choices.

"Take a look at Air Manager, they have a bunch of solutions with just code and hardware build solutions. The choice is extensive and the after-sales service and community help is terrific" would be common response and drive business SI way.

I can see that. :roll: :roll:

Keith

Keith
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jph
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Re: "Hardware Instruments" or what....

#4 Post by jph »

info scattered all over the net is not user friendly. Where should the build be placed.
From a SI viewpoint, I would think that all the bits to build a instrument that has AM code is available right here. Not all over the net.
In a thread. It is not an issue. The hyperlink was invented to bring pages and info together so one post can do exactly that - again as in the example I quoted re the Hantek scope in EEVBLOG.
Peeps asking on FB, WatsApp & other media groups should be directed RIGHT HERE where there are a variety of choices.
I have never, and will 100% categorically never use - 'FB, WatsApp & 'other' (social - yuk) media groups' so having 'here' as the source can then reversely redirect them to the various sources for info which is inversely proportional to the '
Peeps asking on FB, WatsApp & other media groups should be directed RIGHT HERE where there are a variety of choices.'
solution.
If #people# do not use or want to use any of the "FB, WatsApp Discard & other media groups' " then hey.. no worries.
You are actually exacerbating the issue by running non THIS SITE 'groups such as the 'discard' hence part of the problem. ;) :D

Linking a design for STL to thingyverse is no big deal, AND, you are helping others. I think I understand perfectly in that you want to collate ALL info from various social demise sites into one source ?
The internet allows you to do this via links, or via you hosting your own site, or, via a pre-existing site. Use the 'discard'. It is surely what it is for is it not ?
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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jph
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Re: "Hardware Instruments" or what....

#5 Post by jph »

"Take a look at Air Manager, they have a bunch of solutions with just code and hardware build solutions. The choice is extensive and the after-sales service and community help is terrific" would be common response and drive business SI way.

I can see that. :roll: :roll:
No, I do not think it would. It would be a complete headache and virtually impossible to support such disparate ideas. HOW do you propose SI is going to 'support' some PCB design that no longer fit's the bill or ceases to work, or, how can they get the board made (not use one YOU supplied - actually pay to get one made and then assemble it etc etc ) to even test it in the first place ? HOW can they 'approve it' ??

Same as an STL// ?? - do you expect SI to print every thing ? - test ? - then APPROVE it ?

It is more likely to take business away than improve it - but. by offering links to COMPLETELY independent sites offering whatever they claim and that is absolutely nothing to directly do with SI is fine.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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Keith Baxter
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Re: "Hardware Instruments" or what....

#6 Post by Keith Baxter »

Joe, NO

I get the sense you are in an argumentative mood. Take a chill pill bud.

Peeps are not all like you. They use these avenues to ask questions and advice. Some are savvy and know where to look, but 99% are not and rely on others for information and recommendations.

You are old enough to know the word KISS. (Keep It Simple Stupid)
If all the information to build this little clock to use with Air Manager is contained in a simple instrument folder. How KISS is that.

How do you see it?
1) A PCB housed on easyeda.com or other source
2) A 3D print of a PCB housed on thingiverse.com
3) A wiring hash housed on some blog.
4) Code housed on AM
5) Color and font on XYZ blog.


I see it as.
1) Hardware Instrument.

All the info to build any config level is RIGHT HERE. All the files and options in ONE PLACE.

But this thread is about separating Hardware instruments and functions, not the instrument folder contents.

Keith
AMD RYZEN 9 5950X CPU, Corsair H80I cooler, ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PLUS AMD Ryzen Mother Board,  32Gb ram Corsair Vengeance 3000Mh, MSI GTX960 4G graphics card 

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jph
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Re: "Hardware Instruments" or what....

#7 Post by jph »

Keith, I am not in an argumentative mood at all.
I also fully understand what you are trying to do. However, an 'instrument' as in you idea of a collection of hardware files for STL, PCB, schematics etc etc etc is not something that I believe fits in with the ethos of Air Manager as far as integration - which you seem to want - as in, a list of instruments (hardware) that can be seen be downloaded from within AM.
Simply not needed at all and absolutely not possible to verify or test for a suitable standard for submission / acceptance.
You can do exactly as I said before and have a simple thread for an instrument (hardware) that you / others have designed in a section of the forums. It is not exactly the case that it will be flooded out.
You can upload all the files if needed. I honestly cannot see people bothering to have a PCB made when it is totally unnecessary. Oh, let's go and order 5 from a pcb maker in china etc. Pointless.
IF you have designed a PCB for a specific use then sell the things yourself. You would need somewhere to host them, which is not, imo, this site - ie: - it is not a market place.
STL files are fine and can be uploaded to a thread. I am sure that option can be made available.
As for specific 'functions' - well, write them in your own code for that specific 'instrument'. It certainly does not need to be a part of AM or available through the IDE.
I believe you are grossly overestimating the need or desire for such things - especially in the areas of pcbs !
Massively overcomplicated and simply not needed.
It is also a fact that anyone willing to go to the extreme - and unnecessary - lengths of wanting a specific PCB would almost certainly NOT want a 3d printed panel !.. They would want an etched and probably backlit acrylic panel.
I think you are creating a solution looking for a problem.
Joe.
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Keith Baxter
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Re: "Hardware Instruments" or what....

#8 Post by Keith Baxter »

Joe,

I am not going to keep flogging the dead horse. When you see an example of what I propose, your outlook might change.


Keith
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Corjan
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Re: "Hardware Instruments" or what....

#9 Post by Corjan »

Hi,


Things are getting a bit complicated as both instruments and hardware functions can contains hardware code.

We didn't want to rip out the hardware support from the instruments, cause that will break a lot of stuff :)
But I think it would be smart to keep hardware code in hardware functions as much as possible.

The system as it is right now is KISS I would say... It only has the stuff needed to run the instrument.

Allowing people throwing additional files in it would probably become a mess.
There are mulitple tools to create PCB's, 3D models etc etc.

Also, AM has nothing to do with any 3D modelling or PCB designs. It is not build to do anything with that.


Corjan

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Keith Baxter
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Re: "Hardware Instruments" or what....

#10 Post by Keith Baxter »

Hi,

MSG is loud and clear.

I will just add all the info "LINKS" into the logic.lua script.
We all add change log and comment into our scripts so a bunch more will not hurt.

No! better I think. :idea: A readme.txt where all the change log and operation details of the instrument are. No extra files, just text with suggested links to the likes of "instrument Operation Manuel" etc. And other links for whatever.
I think that could be a good compromise. Not??

Just pulled out one instrument to illustrate what I am saying. As far as I am concerned, this info should be in a readme.txt, not in the instrument script. Honestly the intention is 100% correct. Just the place it is recorded.

Code: Select all

-- Register here each of the successive revisions with comments

--	Author						Date			Release		Comments
--	enjxp_SimPassion			11.04.2021		1.1.9		Added missing whole Scratchpad clear at once using CLR Key pressed and maintained at least 1 second
--															Added missing FMC Reset using MENU Key pressed and maintained more than 5 seconds
--	enjxp_SimPassion			10.27.2021		1.1.8		Added missing Hardware LEDs handling, thanks to "Sim Build UK" having pointed this out,
--															in his YT FMC video (just only watched this video today)
--															Added missing Hardware display brightness handling using either DIGITAL ENCODER or ANALOG 
--															POTENTIOMETER
--															Added FAIL & DISPLAY/CALL missing status handling
--															Related FAIL & DISPLAY/CALL LEDs output activated
--															Reworked debug process
--															Fixed Side switching issue, thanks to @Cyberguerro reporting similar issue in EFIS Control
--	enjxp_SimPassion			05.09.2021		1.1.7		Added turning LEDs lights OFF on closing instrument
--	enjxp_SimPassion			05.02.2021		1.1.6		Fixed text not displayed in release 1.1.5 due to unwanted condition
--															Fixed missing conditions for weird display
--	enjxp_SimPassion			05.01.2021		1.1.5		Fixed weird display on unknow FMC lines state
--															Added Toggle check infos button (Software)	
--															Added CAPT or FO side swapping button	
--	enjxp_SimPassion			03.22.2021		1.1.4		Added Missing Cyan Title state
--															Adjusted default grey color
--	enjxp_SimPassion			08.30.2020		1.1.3		Added Buttons Array handling (to be filled and ended in a future release)
--															Corrected Dial acceleration
--	enjxp_SimPassion			05/17/2020		1.1.2		Added version number displayed to be able to check version on tablet devices
--	enjxp_SimPassion			05/07/2020		1.1.1		Enhanced brightness handling and versioning sync
--	enjxp_SimPassion			09/11/2019		1.1.0		Changed CPT/FO side info label color
--															Added strings to uppercase conversion for text fields
--	enjxp_SimPassion			10/30/2019		1.0.9		Customized hardware screen bright handling
--															Added panel lighting handling
--															Adjusted Text location
--															Merged CAPT & FO sides in a unique AM Instrument
--	enjxp_SimPassion			07/15/2019		1.0.8		Adding Hardware handling
--	enjxp_SimPassion			03/19/2019		1.0.7		Brightness Management added
--															Font Background Color handling (Highlighted words)
--	enjxp_SimPassion			02/24/2019		1.0.6		Info sections reworked
--	enjxp_SimPassion			01/25/2019		1.0.5		Full : text size issue fixed
--	enjxp_SimPassion			11/01/2018		1.0.4		Full : bugs fixed
--	ozuser_Darren_Lane			12/21/2017		1.0.3		Full : bugs fixed
--	ozuser_Darren_Lane			12/10/2017		1.0.1		Text only : bugs fixed
--	enjxp_SimPassion			11/29/2017		1.0.2		Full : feature added
--	ozuser_Darren_Lane			11/29/2017		1.0.0		Text only version
--	ozuser_Darren_Lane			11/27/2017		1.0.1		Full : bugs fixed
--	ozuser_Darren_Lane			11/18/2017		1.0.0		Full : initial release

--=============================================================================
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--  Boeing 737-800X CDU for ZiboMmod
--		based on ozuser_Darren_Lane's CDU/FMC for ZiboMod B737-800X
--	script reworking made by enjxp_SimPassion starting on 11/29/2017
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--  New release based on initial graphic design by ozuser_Darren_Lane,
--	thanks to kind permission of ozuser (Darren Lane) for publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--  Note that this panel only mimics the 737 CDU by sending inputs
--  and displaying the 737 outputs.

--	Default size = 426 x 357

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------
--			INSTALLATION SECTION
----------------------------------------

-- Unzip the file, then copy/paste the inside folder named with a suite of digits and letters, into the "\Users\%username%\Air Manager\instruments\OPEN_DIRECTORY" folder or in the "\Users\%username%\Air Manager BETA\instruments\OPEN_DIRECTORY" folder 

-- This instrument could be send on a remote PC, or on the same PC to Air Player, in order to run in standalone mode : waiting for an Air Player 3.5 Release
-- it also could be send to Air Player running on Android, iPad, Linux, Windows, Mac or Raspberry Pi with the appropriate licence of Air Player

-- For execution, mandatory requirement is one of the following Sim Innovations product and license : Air Manager on Windows or Air Player on Android / iPad / Raspberry Pi

--========================================================================================================================================================================================================

--		CAVEATS for coding : in this LUA script the order in which appear the statements concerning texts, buttons and images positioning, is of primary importance,
--		as all objects are displayed with a layer order : the first objects appear behind and the last objects appear in front following the order in which they're been wrote in the script

--========================================================================================================================================================================================================
Keith
AMD RYZEN 9 5950X CPU, Corsair H80I cooler, ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PLUS AMD Ryzen Mother Board,  32Gb ram Corsair Vengeance 3000Mh, MSI GTX960 4G graphics card 

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