Starting A Cockpit Build - A Few Questions!

[Buzz71]

Hi everyone

After recently retiring from work I am looking to start building a dedicated cockpit setup. I've had a break from flightsim for the last 18 months or so because of the never ending setup/take down on the family PC. Now I have the time and means to do something dedicated! But I am coming at this fresh and have a lot of questions.

I started searching on YouTube and soon came across Russ' channel. My hope was to build something with three 50" OLED TVs and then a few other screens for instrumentation. Hence - Russ's videos got me very excited and I soon learned about Air Manager and Knobster. This is the direction I want to go - because I want to build an immersive cockpit but I don't want to be limited to one aircraft.

Previously I flew on P3D and used FSEconomy (Australian based). My plane of choice was the Carenado PC-12, but I also would like to be able to scale up to perhaps S340 and also I have the PMDG 737. But looking through the panel library, it doesn't look like the PC-12 is supported at all.

So I have many questions on how to begin and would really like to get in contact with some experienced people who have done this all before and can give me some advice! For example, am I really going to be limited to aircraft like the Baron which has a full panel? I'm aiming to be immersive and go the no mouse no keyboard if possible but I am not sure how achievable this is.

Appreciate I will probably need to ask more specific questions but grateful if people can tell me if I am in the right place - I would like to try and make Air Manager be the option for me! Thanks in advance.

[Tetrachromat]

May I ask what your target simulator is?

Air Manager has a long standing history with FSX, P3D and X-Plane. But a lot of the newcomers are coming from MSFS2020, which currently still has some limitations regarding displays.

If targeting MSFS2020 i would recommend starting with one big screen for the main simulator scenery/cockpit display, and one or two mid-size screens for displaying the AM panels and/or other add-on tools. If you have the room/space you could replace that big screen with a projector as I have done in my setup. All the displays can be driven by one graphics card.

I have a 4K HDR projector (but running at a resolution of 2560 x 1440) and 2 touch screen monitors (21.5", 1920 x 1080) driven by a NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super, giving me a good framerate of 30 to 40 frames per seconds on ULTRA settings in MSFS2020. A 4K resolution will pull the framerate down to 20 to 30 fps.

Paul

[Buzz71]

Of course, sorry. When flying previously I was exclusively P3D. Unless there is a reason not to, I will likely stick with Prepar3D - although I will need to upgrade to V5.

[Buzz71]

Also I will be building a dedicated PC, and have the resources to go fairly top end.

[jph]

Hi, and welcome to the forums.

You will also not be able to use 'side' monitors / screens unless you use X-Plane as no other sim preforms this and offer the appropriate perspective correction. You cannot use NVSurround etc which is designed for a 'flat' display.

Joe.

[Buzz71]

Hi jph. To be clear - you are saying I can't run 3x50" OLED TVs with P3D?

[jph]

Hi Buzz.
What I am saying is that you can't run 3 monitors is an angled environment - for example - where the left and right monitors are at, say, 45 degrees. The is no way to get the perspective correction. The only sim that supports this is X-Plane.
It IS possible in P3D / FSX if you run 3 PC's and network them together - and of course, 3 licences of P3D and a copy of WideView - https://www.wideview.it/
X-Plane allows you to setup as many monitors as you require - so, for example - 3, and then when you set the monitors at the angles you like, you can adjust all the requirements and perspective corrections within X-Plane. Also, to avoid parallax issues the monitor vertical centres should be at eye level when in your 'flying' seating position.
Joe

[jph]

I have a 4K HDR projector (but running at a resolution of 2560 x 1440) and 2 touch screen monitors (21.5", 1920 x 1080) driven by a NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super, giving me a good framerate of 30 to 40 frames per seconds on ULTRA settings in MSFS2020. A 4K resolution will pull the framerate down to 20 to 30 fps.

Paul

HI Paul,
I dont know about FS but in all other sims there seems to be an issue with projectors. For example - If I run a large screen projection - say, around 80" to 90", then the size of the actual cockpit is also scaled !
So, as in the image below (sorry about the quality it is my crappy old Motorola phone), you can see that a 2/3 cessna cockpit panel is about 65 / 70" across horizontally on a 90 to 100" display .. great fun, but yikes. Yes, I can pull back the image with zoom in and out but that does not help at all as the whole thing is then distorted beyond recognition as you end up sitting on the elevator

Here is an old shot with my Hitachi ultra short through unit at around 90" screen just onto the wall (you can get 100" screen at 2 feet from the display !) . The seemingly small standard monitor in the image is around 27" iirrc. - as said, the whole view is resized so now the cessna panel is around the size of a 747 full panel.
This is one of the reasons why many use multi projectors or curved suction mylar units. I wonder how you have found it with your sim as surely it must have the same issues ?
Joe.
example with 172 - X-Plane - from a couple of years ago.

[Tetrachromat]

Hi Joe,

What you say about that scaling of the 3D cockpit is true for FS2020 as well. My screen uses the full width of the wall, which is about 100". To minimize the effect of the large cockpit view, I also moved the eyepoint and adjusted the zoom to a neutral value in the aircraft.cfg files for the aircrafts I fly, which are mainly GA aircrafts. I just see a small part of the cowling and the props in the pilot seat view. The 3D cockpit is out of view. I must say that I sit 2 meters away from the wall, and the screen center is at eye level. The view looks quite natural to me.

I think 3D cockpits are really great for VR. But my intention is fly in 2D mouse- and keyboard-free. So in very rare situations I have to use instrument views.

I control the aircraft and simulator through
- yoke, throttle quadrant and rudder pedals (swapping from Logitech to Honeycomb right now)
- a StreamDeck device
- Saitek Radio Panel
- my rebuilt B737 MCP hardware panel
- a XBOX controller (mainly for drone camera)
- mouse and keyboard in menu/option pages only
- the 2 touchscreen monitors for the Air Manager panels (plus a knobster in waiting position to be integrated).

So there are plenty of controls to use instead of the instruments in the 3D cockpit. I cannot remember operating an instrument in the 3D cockpit for long time.

For a multi projector setup my room size (and budget) is not big enough

[jph]

HI Paul - excellent stuff ! - I believe we are still on topic for the OP as we are discussing various cockpit and view options. All this should help Buzz.
I like your setup. Nice

I think the biggest issue using projectors etc is that the seating position ends up being incorrect in relation to the aircraft. For example, in a 172 or similar - you are virtually sitting on or near the CL of the aircraft at about 1/3 wing chord. Any change in this and the pitch action of the aircraft is really wrong and becomes unrealistic - and I know no way of correcting this. Moving the view 'from' options only really moves the pilot forward or behind the natural view point hence buggering up the pitch view. Obviously in a heavy jet, the action is far far less noticeable as the pilot is sitting far ahead of the CL, but the problem is still there. I haven't, and can't see a real way around this.
X-Plane has incredible control over all this though with FOV. Perspective correction, angles etc etc.
For example. A cessna 172 cockpit is around 4 feet across. A monitor with a horizontal res of that much is huge - and of course, you have to calculate the pilot eye distance from the monitor, and the resulting FOV with the windscreen, and, that the pilot is not in the centre of the FOV, he is offset to the left hence the monitor is also not being viewed from the centre point in the horizontal plane.
A large 65" monitor (on calcs) would offer a 48" horizontal 'view' but would simply not work correctly with the pilot position being attempted to be placed in a realistic point, and, then the view to the right (still looking forwards) is wrong due to the pilot point of view offset to the left as the two angles (right FOV and left FOV) are completely different. It can be accomplished with multiple monitors with, say, two for the forward view. 2 x 32" offer a good (great!) solution for the forward view only where the pilot is sat at a point to the left of the centre of the left hand monitor. This is before we even consider side monitors. Of course, this is all trying to obtain the very very best. And 90% of the time it is totally not required but a good working knowledge of the issues is great to have. A couple of high spec PC's and - say, 6 monitors, can offer a really good solution although the bezels may not be ideally positioned.
Using multiple monitors in a purely forward view in XP offers a far more realistic view than a single unit. (then add the side units) - even then, from the perspective of the pilot, the right hand monitor should be larger than the left - or spaced away from the 'side window' accordingly - which then buggers up a passenger view.
Great fun eh ?
I will go and rest my head ..........................