Xplane 12

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Sling
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Xplane 12

#1 Post by Sling »

It seems the first beta of the next generation of Xplane will be here around the end of September. I’m sure we will see more previews of the next gen technology as we approach its public release. Needless to say some excitement is in the air for what’s coming.
Last edited by Sling on Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:00 am, edited 4 times in total.

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jph
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Re: Xplane Next Generation

#2 Post by jph »

Hi,
I presume you are referring to the various 'preview' vids and also the interview with Austin ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBY4X6k ... neOfficial

Whilst I welcome some of the ideas, I am shocked at the response to the question regarding triple monitors (around 51 minutes in)
Austin downplayed the possibility of performance increases - or any great performance increases - with triple monitors, yet, Ben said quite the opposite in a blog post about 4 months ago where he stated that by having a correct and working multithreaded multiprocessor model the calculation workload could be massively relieved.
Then, along comes the 'other guy' who seems to be basically saying that you must use a single resolution that covers all monitors and sees them as one single one - which appears to be Windows display settings or NVsurround or similar (which ARE ALL designed for a flat perspective and do not allow for angled monitors and perspective correction -) . and basically says that selecting 3 monitors individually is crazy and everyone is doing it wrong! ... yet, that is the way X-P is built ! . Austin flusters and then rambles about adjusting the UI to stop people 'making setup mistakes ? wtf ?
there is only one option in X-P that I know of, that is, seeing the monitor(s) as a preselected single unit in windows or, seeing the individual units and working with them with the amazing built in perspective correction. So, if you span the view in windows across all monitors (or in NVsurround etc) , then XP will not even give you the option of ANY perspective correction.... that is terrible if that is the case.
This would then cause X-P to see a single monitor and display a flat perspective view with no correction option hence completely removing the reason for the vast majority of multimonitor displays.
Visually, one of the KEY selling aspects of X-Plane as far as visuals are concerned is the ability to define actual true perspective correction.
I think it the case above, with Austin seemingly being blindsided that there is a huge issue on the horizon (pun intended) ;)
Quite worrying really. - well, very worrying.

Of course, we could all go out and spend another 5 grand on a couple more PC's and network them but.................. The fact that Austin appeared to have absolutely no idea and then the other guy (looks like a Niko Rosberg clone :) ) jumped in to say something that took Austin completely unawares is shocking.

He basically seems to have said that anyone using X-Planes multimonitor setup is 'doing it incorrectly. ?
Thoughts ?

Joe
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Sling
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Re: Xplane Next Generation

#3 Post by Sling »

Yes if I came away having doubts it was the apparent lack of awareness over how people want to use multi-monitor support. We certainly don’t need the UI stopping us using it how it currently is. Seriously has that guy ever compared the stretched and distorted nvidia surround setup compared to individually setup and correctly adjusted displays. It would be a massive mistake to change what they already have because someone is struggling with their setup.
My other concern is the creation of this believable world as Austin called it. I agreed with his comment about MSFS being flat and crap down at street level but when you are VFR flying it’s pretty damn good for navigating. If I can recognise where I am in relation to what I see out the window in Xplane next gen then I will be happy, until then I will reserve judgement.

The weather sounds great and the trees and lighting previews that we have seen look really good so visually it will be better. Just how much better is the big question.

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Re: Xplane Next Generation

#4 Post by jph »

Agreed. BUT some good news for once :P :o -
I have actually been in direct contact with Austin and the information given is incorrect in relation to the amazing X-Plane display options and appears to have been 'off the cuff' by Philipp which totally blind sided Austin for a moment and Austin was quite taken aback - but is now 100% clarified that it will not in any way alter the future of x-plane and the multi monitor system. (If I get permission I will post the response from Austin but rest assured there is no issue)
I 'think' the guy that jumped in was Philipp Ringler. AFAIK, the lead graphics guy is Ben Supnik,
If you look at this proposed development plan from Nov 2020 -
https://developer.x-plane.com/2020/11/s ... orking-on/
Under Road Map: Graphics and Performance, then you can see where Ben is extoling the virtues of multi core usage and multi monitor performance.
I have replied to Austin this morning and hope to hear back to clarify that what Ben had to say is, still, indeed the case, and not what Philipp had to say which appears to be his own opinion. I also understand that Philipp and Ben are not working in the same areas. I do not believe Philipp is a graphic lead, it is Ben Supnic.
So at least we can relax about that part, and, there will be no 'changes to the UI as far as advice or blocks regarding usage is concerned - as I pointed out to Austin that in reality there cannot be any case for 'advice' or prompting - unless in the extremely unlikely case that someone wanted a 3 monitor setup with absolutely no correction at all - which of course would be a case for a combined 'flat plane' display. I think if a user wanted that to be set up via the multi monitor interface in X-P then perhaps they should be looking elsewhere - for many things..... :o

As my main area of flying is purely the UK, then due to using ORBX UK the graphics are, imo, as good if not better for VFR flying than fs2020 as they are both basically derived from the same information sources. Whilst X-Plane is 'ok' out of the box for VFR, it is simply amazing with ORBX in the areas that ORBX covers. This is only one, but a vital part of the experience if you are a GA pilot. The others are of course the most amazing external data interfaces and flight modelling access. I am even happy with the low level stuff in X-P at the moment. I DO dislike, and in fact, turn off the 'clouds' as they are visually terrible and have a massive impact on performance at low level. (9900K @5GHz all cores with 2080Ti) - and the weather system leaves a lot to be desired unless set to real world. The manual settings are simply horrible.
The lighting engine definitely needs the update and I totally welcome that. A complaint by many is that X-Plane has always seemed to be set in a bland coloured world. The trees, yes, I welcome that providing it is not a total frame rate hog as I have no really big issue with them apart from bush flying which is visually terrible. Any update is welcome though. I just hope they don't act as a tree simulator as opposed to a flight simulator. ;)
Anyway, some very good news regarding the incorrect and ill judged comments in the video. !

Joe
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Re: Xplane Next Generation

#5 Post by jph »

I can confirm that the existing display for multi monitors and display units will remain unaffected and the comments made in the video in the link is not correct.

My first email to Austin
With reference to the excellent talk you did on - Team X-Plane's Webinar with the Flight Sim Association, I must confess to being left totally confused in one area.
That is, the multi monitor support in X-Plane in the future.
Around 52 minutes in there is talk of multi monitor - especially triple monitor - support.
What your guy says regarding a single display multi monitor stretch is, as far as I can ascertain, not going to work at all with perspective correction for multi angle monitors - which has been one of the most incredible things that X-Plane ever supported, along with the built in ability for perspective correction.
Simply saying that a flat combined display in a single res is far better for FPS is fine, yes, I would agree. BUT saying that people are 'doing it wrongly' ??? - I do not agree. The only options in X-P are to treat the monitors as single units and allow proper and amazing perspective setup, or, the fact that X-Plane only sees a single monitor spread across three to give a wide resolution. if you do that, then all the perspective correction and ability to angle the monitors is gone. (which is absolutely a gold standard with X-Plane and with cockpit builders).
I would be very appreciative of your thoughts re this ? How, if possible, would you propose to overcome this ?. I don't really think that the majority of cockpit builder want a 'flat' display with no perspective correction.
Reply from Austin which was copied by him to the appropriate people at Laminar.
oh right!!!!
if the monitor are all angled around you then they each need their own screen and angle!
good point!!!!
ok yes we clearly ned to maintain support for that!

austin

Re the article linked by me to the Ben's blog post re the future of multi displays and multiprocessing and asked whether that is definitely still the plan- Austin's reply -
seems accurate, yes
So we can actually look forward to better support for multi display units when they properly implement multi core usage.
Joe
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“Experience is merely the name men gave to their mistakes.”
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Re: Xplane Next Generation

#6 Post by Keith Baxter »

Hi X-Plane friends,
We are super excited to be attending http://email.x-plane.com/e/c/eyJlbWFpbF ... e6c5c2b1f7 next month in San Diego. FSExpo is celebration of all things virtual aviation that will be taking place at the Town and Country Resort in San Diego, California on September 24-26, 2021. This event does an excellent job each year of catering to pilots and flight simulation enthusiasts of all ages and skill levels.

Here's a link to register to attend the event – we hope to see you there! If you cannot join in person this year, the organizers of FSExpo are offering an affordable all-access streaming pass ($15 USD) to the event. Here's a preview of what we have planned.

Look Behind the Curtain – X-Plane Keynote
We aren't coming to FSExpo empty handed.... We have all sorts of exciting, previously unshared, X-Plane developments to highlight at our keynote on Saturday, September 25th at 2:00pm Pacific Time. This event will also be streamed on our YouTube channel if you are not able to attend this year. We'll share details on tuning into this presentation live as we get closer to the event.
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Prove Your Skills – The X-Plane Landing Competition
This year at FSExpo we are hosting a short field landing competition using X-Plane! We will host a qualifying round at our booth all day on Saturday with the Stinson L5 and a tiny runway. Try mastering landing the L5 in as short a distance as possible in X-Plane. That is perfect practice.... after all, that airplane can take off and land in the same distance as an AIRCRAFT CARRIER deck!

The live final event will happen on Sunday, September 26th at 10:00am Pacific Time. There, the pilots with the best qualifying performance will receive a new challenge and compete against each other for some fun prizes to level-up their home simulators!
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Learn More About X-Plane – A Seminar with Developer Philipp Ringler, CFI
Our aircraft systems developer, Philipp Ringler, is hosting an afternoon Captain’s Corner presentation on Friday at FSExpo. This will highlight some of our new, unreleased developments to this aspect of X-Plane while also serving as a masterclass from the person who actually wrote the code itself.

Philipp will be using his experience as a Certified Flight Instructor to walk the audience through the complete process of planning a flight. This will include a step-by-step demonstration of using X-Plane's systems to navigate the aircraft through the flight plan and subsequently the various types of instrument approaches available in the simulator. There will also be time for a Q&A so be sure to pack your burning questions! You can register to attend this seminar either in person or virtually here.
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Try the Latest Technology – The FSExpo Exhibit Hall
One of our favorite parts about attending FSExpo is getting the chance to see what companies from across the aviation industry have brought to exhibit in their booths. This year's exhibition will include over 35 industry leaders – including teams from Honeycomb, Thrustmaster, Flight Factor, GLEIM Aviation and others.

On display this year will be FAA-Approved simulators running X-Plane, the latest in flight control hardware, physical GPS units that take training in X-Plane to the next level and more! Team X-Plane will be hosting a booth all weekend, too. This is a great environment to meet developers and make new friends who love flight simulation as much as you do!
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See you in San Diego!

– The X-Plane Team
AMD RYZEN 9 5950X CPU, Corsair H80I cooler, ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PLUS AMD Ryzen Mother Board,  32Gb ram Corsair Vengeance 3000Mh, MSI GTX960 4G graphics card 

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Sling
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Re: Xplane 12

#7 Post by Sling »

Well it’s official the next version of Xplane will be surprise surprise Xplane12. Just watched the FSexpo keynote by Laminar and not super impressed with what I learned. The presentation was IMHO not very professionally delivered and after all the built up didn’t really tell me anything I didn’t already know. The Q&A was a joke. Every answer was vague. What a let down.

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Re: Xplane 12

#8 Post by jph »

I agree, I think the whole thing was a joke and a MAJOR let down.
There is a HUGE issue in offering a presentation that is supposed to showcase improvement that then stutters so badly on ALL demos that it seems to be running at about 10 to 15 FPS. Where are all the mentions of the promised amazing multi core usage ? - Maxing all cores as Austin quoted in his previous acid trip- NADA. Where are the 'real' announcements of GPU efficiency improvements ? - NADA. If anything it looks like it is a gpu performance hit. There are no new gpus on the horizon that will have any effect on this. Same with processors, nothing new under the sun as it would appear that no matter how many cores you have it doenst do jack sh!t - otherwise they would have enthused about it.
Who TF is bothered about hearing bloody crickets ? - yet they spend several minutes talking about it. The tress are 'ok' but not very realistic. The water effects are truly awful. Having lived on and sailed my own 'yott' for 10 years I think I am qualified to say so with certainty. There is a clip around 38 mins of yachts in a marina and the water looks like there is a 15 knot current flowing with absolutely no wind. The water near the shore and offshore is totally as bad. Obviously somebody who has never looked at the sea. I am not interested in the movement of the sea in a flight simulator unless I was flying a seaplane which is pretty niche, but hey. There are 'water effects' in 11 but anything past the first notch on the slider kills the graphics on a 2080ti and 5.2Ghz 9900K.
The trees ? - I have seen far better renditions of trees from 20 years ago in 3D mark 2001. (I still have it if anyone is interested) - I would need to check the license though - I 'think' it was free to use.. Why are they bothered about close up animations of tree tops ? wtf ? - If you can see them you are in deep sh!t anyway and are worthless.
Absolutely nothing at all in there made me think 'oh, that's good'. Yes, I would like volumetric clouds, but NOT at the expense of performance to such a level. Rain effects on cockpit glass ? -- err yeah, - hopefully comes with a big off switch. The lighting effects in the cockpit are still horrendous in the demo. The huge and dramatic delineation between light and dark. Unrealistic and I would think unwanted to most. You cant even turn the damn thing off. Luckily for those of us using AM we can avoid that by completely turning off the bloody 3D cockpit by editing the airfile.
Totally unimpressed, and yes, I use X-Plane as my Sim of choice and have absolutely no plans to change that. If I wanted a cricket simulator I would by farm simulator or tractor sim or whatever it is called. Or I would buy the fs game and an xbox and get giraffes (probably crickets too). Hell, I could sell one of my spare GPUs and buy the xbox x and the fs game and have change left over but I am not going to do that. I want a flight simulator. - and one that is not a stutter fest.
[/rant off]

effing crickets ???? WTF ????
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lonespace
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Re: Xplane 12

#9 Post by lonespace »

Re: stuttering

Check out this stream from the Honeycomb booth, which was running an XP12 pre-release, and doing it very smoothly. I think the stutters may have been an issue with the stream itself.

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Re: Xplane 12

#10 Post by jph »

Hi, have you the link please?
Joe
“Everything in moderation, including moderation.”
“Experience is merely the name men gave to their mistakes.”
Joe (CISSP) -IT security consultant

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