Formula 1 .....

You can talk about anything flight (simulation) related here

Moderators: russ, Ralph

Message
Author
User avatar
jph
Posts: 2846
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:50 pm
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow..

Re: Formula 1 .....

#71 Post by jph »

Ooooooo. Some cracking stuff going on. :o

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/60036659

Seems like Herr Wolfe is trying to pressure teams into 'his' way (typical Wolfe twat move !) - applying undue pressure on the teams that use their PU's in order to benefit AMG Merc only.
So the only one of their PU customers with the balls to stand up to little Hitler is Zak Brown at McC. Good on you Zak.
Also looks like Zak is sending a VERY clear message to Wolfe to say - "DON'T F&CK WITH US" by strongly hinting at using RedBull Powertrains PU's when the current deal contract expires.
It will be interesting as Stroll would drop AMG like a red coal if he even thought for a second that the RB PU was the better prospect which it probably will be by the end of 2025. That only leaves Williams as a customer and they are in no way beholding anymore to Wolfe now that Frank and Claire have gone.

Nice one Zak. A man with principles AND balls.

I didn't think Wolfe and co could piss off the FIA and F1 management any more than they have already done with their crying and whinging at Yas and also their derogatory comments on team radio aimed to Hamilton aimed squarely at the FIA prior to Yas, yet, they seem to be surpassing themselves here. Way to go Toto.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

User avatar
Ralph
Posts: 7878
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: De Steeg
Contact:

Re: Formula 1 .....

#72 Post by Ralph »

I don't know anything about F1, so I don't really understand what this is about. But funny to see that VW/Porsche might work with Red Bull. A little war within Germany itself.

User avatar
jph
Posts: 2846
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:50 pm
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow..

Re: Formula 1 .....

#73 Post by jph »

Hi Ralph,
It's an interesting one with VAG (Porsche division) as to 'how' they would actually enter into F1.
Some have talked of VAG Porsche using their name on the new RedBull Powertains power unit which was previously Honda. RedBull have gained (Bought) the IP and even Hired the Honda Staff to continue to develop the original Honda PU in the UK. It is now a totally RedBull owned unit and all future design and development will have nothing to do with Honda directly although work can still be contracted out to Honda AeroSpace for specialist items. So RB are now full manufacturers of F1 powertrains. They will be able to lease their power units to other F1 teams in the same way as Merc AMG and Ferrari do today where the Haas team and alfa romeo use Ferrari power units and McLaren, Williams and Aston Martin all use MERC AMG power units. their are only 4 manufacturers of Power units in F1 even though there are 10 teams. The Power unit manufacturers are - Ferrari, Mercedes AMG, Renault and RedBull Powertrains(Which was originally Honda F1 Engines)
The teams using each are -

RedBull Racing (RedBull PU)
Redbull AlfaTauri (RedBull PU)
Mercedes AMG (Merc PU)
Renault (Alpine) (Renault PU)
McLaren (Merc PU)
Hass (Ferrari PU)
Williams (Merc PU)
Ferrari (Ferrari PU)
Aston Martin (Merc PU)
Alfa Romeo (Ferrari PU)

So, for Porsche to effectively buy the rights to put their name on the RedBull developed and built new PU would not be good marketing in my opinion. Reason being that the advertising that manufacturers get by having their PUs in other cars is tremendous. Nobody refers to just 'Aston Martin' , it is Aston Martin / Mercedes. Same for McLaren, it is widely know as McLaren / Mercedes .

As RedBull will be able to lease PUs to other teams it is better for RB to have their name on the PU, not some upstart like Porsche simply paying for slapping their name on someone else's unit.
However, if Porsche were to get really involved in the development along with RB that may help, but I still think that is not necessary or desirable. Mercedes - as a company - do not make their own engines - as in they are completely partitioned from the German company. ALL Merc F1 powertrains are developed and built in the UK at Brixworth. They never see Germany. It is a UK company. I cannot see Porsche doing the same. I also cannot see that it would be permitted in the contract of the Honda F1 PU deal terms and conditions when RedBull bought all the rights to use and develop the unit. I am sure there will be clauses in there !.
So.. we know that Liberty Media / F1 wants to add possibly an extra 2 teams to bring the number up to 12 as opposed to 10 now, so 'possibly' VAG are considering setting up a new team ?. That is a LOT of work and money. You can lease a PU from the major engine manufacturers but you have to develop your own car from scratch within the rules. This is a hell of an ask for a new startup. In fact I simply cannot remember the last F1 team that started from scratch. They ALL bought existing teams or assets. The last one to come in seemingly from the ground up was Hass, however this wasn't the true case as they bought all the assets and IP from Marussia F1 in 2014 - and even then, it took them 2 years before even having a car ready to compete - and - they still outsourced a lot of the work - such as the main chassis - to other companies (Dallara in that case). There simply isn't a team for sale at the moment so there is nothing for VAG Porsche to buy into and it would be a ground up operation over several years at least. It is possible that they could actually buy 'Hass F1' as I am unsure how much longer Gene Hass wants to continue being at the back of the grid ?. That 'may' be an option and it could very well come with a deal to use RedBull power units !
I am certain that several teams will be considering the RB Power unit as it will definitely be cheaper than Merc who have a monopoly at this time and charge ridiculous prices and also the power unit is equally as good if not better than the merc unit already and although little has been published until very recently it has come to light that RedBull Powertrains have poached the top 5 Senior Mercedes designers for Mercedes AMG F1 power units from the UK based at the Brixworthdivision, the full top guys for engine PU internal combustion, electronic kinetic recovery and generation systems, Engine Electronic management systems. Basically the whole merc power unit top guys are now to be at RedBull. ;) . Mercedes F1 are in line to potentially lose around 50 million dollars a year ..or more! ..in revenue from 2025..

So, it will be very very interesting to see where VAG end up - if they do - within F1.
It could be that they actually do a back door deal on an existing design with only very minor changes (which is not permitted in the rules - but, can be worked around with enough money - as per when Lawrence Stroll the Canadian Billionaire bought the Force India Team and renamed it 'Racing Point' - prior to the current day Aston Martin - did a completely underhand - off the books - deal with Toto Wolfe to buy a ready made car - ie, the 2019 Mercedes AMG F1 car - complete - with only a few minor alterations to some design parameters that enabled them to cheat the rules!!! and call it their own - it was laughingly known as the 'pink mercedes' and was subject to massive investigations and enforcement of rules to try to stop this blatant cheating. (Mercedes and Toto Wolfe thinking they own F1 - again - and that only they make the rules). There are also perfectly legal ways where key staff can be drafted in from another company - such as RB - or indeed as has been hinted at - McLaren - to get the organisation started.
You should see if you can get hold of seasons 1 to 4 of the netflix documentary 'Drive to Survive' which is a rather excellent fly on the wall documentary of each season of F1 from 2017. They had camera crews embedded in each team. A really good insight. F1 isn't just a superb motor racing sport, it is certainly politically intriguing.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

User avatar
Keith Baxter
Posts: 4674
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:00 am
Location: Botswana

Re: Formula 1 .....

#74 Post by Keith Baxter »

Yup

And the controversy still not put to bed. :lol:

But hay, the boys have new toys and it is game on.

Keith
AMD RYZEN 9 5950X CPU, Corsair H80I cooler, ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PLUS AMD Ryzen Mother Board,  32Gb ram Corsair Vengeance 3000Mh, MSI GTX960 4G graphics card 

User avatar
jph
Posts: 2846
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:50 pm
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow..

Re: Formula 1 .....

#75 Post by jph »

Hello Keith,
I think any 'controversy' is well in bed by now. It is simply a case of more to come ;)
The bullet points from any report as to the under-manning of the race control, which is what it all boils down to, means that a 'team' will now be the race control. As we know, a camel is a horse designed by a committee.......................

But, back to current affairs. All I can say is WOW ! some major designs within the rules. Merc is getting a lot of attention due to it's virtual lack of side pods which is purely - at this stage - due to the different approach. It, at this stage, does not seem to be working well for them at all. Qualy today will be very interesting and telling.
If Merc do not cure the 'porpoising' then we will have two drivers out with back injuries. Merc are the leaders in 'sandbagging' though and I will believe it when I see it in qualy.
Russel also seems to be severely worrying Hamilton. IF Merc do their 'let them race' then I can see another Rosberg / Hamilton demolition derby taking place as per 2016.
Both the RB and the Ferrari seem to be very well sorted and tuneable cars - a huge credit to them. I don't think either Le Clerc or Saintz are world calls drivers but that won't stop them getting some serious pace and podiums depending on what transpires today as the teams open up the engine modes.
The new RB PU sounds amazing and was still pulling in 8th gear on Max's lap - albeit on a short straight course -. What mode they were in and what they have left is yet to be discerned though.
I think one of the most interesting things this season will be the Russel Hamilton contest and how many times they take each other out, or, how quickly Russel gets pissed off with team orders to let the slower car through.
Let's get ready to rumble eh ? - 'The god's must be crazy' :lol:
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

User avatar
Keith Baxter
Posts: 4674
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:00 am
Location: Botswana

Re: Formula 1 .....

#76 Post by Keith Baxter »

Hi,

Game on.... Here we Gooooooooo

Awesome to see that all the 3xxx forum members are not on line and watching the F1 spectral :lol: :lol: .

Keith

Edit: After I win the lotto tonight, I am putting in a order for a Ferrari SP3 :twisted:
AMD RYZEN 9 5950X CPU, Corsair H80I cooler, ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PLUS AMD Ryzen Mother Board,  32Gb ram Corsair Vengeance 3000Mh, MSI GTX960 4G graphics card 

User avatar
jph
Posts: 2846
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:50 pm
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow..

Re: Formula 1 .....

#77 Post by jph »

Excellent Qualy. Nice job by Ferrari.
Merc did well to get in the top 10 even. Russell would have been on for a top 5 had he not made the mistake on the first corner. Valtteri must be smug as a bug in a rug as he starts alongside Hamilton in his Alfa Romeo. What a turn up for the books and so ironic.
I am sure Merc will come back strong as the weeks go by but I don't envy either Merc driver doing a full race with the back jarring bumping.
What about Magnussen eh ? what a star ! jumps virtually straight in the car and puts it in the top 10. Amazing. Credit to to the 'Hulk as well'
The Ferrari PU is bloody quick this year as can be seen by the massive gains made by Alfa Romeo and Hass using the same PU. It is something special whereas ALL merc PU teams seem to be having low power outputs, which is relative of course. They may well be running a conservative mode though until they get more engine data. I believe RB and AT are also running at quite a conservative setting to gather data over a full 'real' race. If Ferrari are also doing the same then their - Ferrari - PU package is brilliant.
The making of a cracking season. I seriously hope Merc get their shit together though as I really want to see a battle between Hamilton and Russell.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

User avatar
Keith Baxter
Posts: 4674
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:00 am
Location: Botswana

Re: Formula 1 .....

#78 Post by Keith Baxter »

Hi,

Well that was boring until the end. Some overtake attempts but nothing exciting.

What a race by Ferrari, great to see them back in the mix.
McLaren, well they need a lot of help.
Red Bull have cooked a few motors and will have to turn the power down if they want to stay in the race. Says a lot for their new engine facility.
Merc, surprised they were where the ended up.

Going to be a good year.

Keith
AMD RYZEN 9 5950X CPU, Corsair H80I cooler, ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PLUS AMD Ryzen Mother Board,  32Gb ram Corsair Vengeance 3000Mh, MSI GTX960 4G graphics card 

User avatar
jph
Posts: 2846
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:50 pm
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow..

Re: Formula 1 .....

#79 Post by jph »

Not sure about the AT as far as external fire damage but the RB ones seem to have suffered no damage as all as the problem with all three power units were related to fuel supply, not ERS or ICE etc so no issues with power and no engine changes needed so it would seem. The fuel either wasn't getting to the ICE from the tank or was spraying out from the HP feed which either way meant no power and the LP fuel sensor would shut down the PU. It could well be the Gasley's PU ignited externally due to sprayed fuel - again, not an actual PU issue. The issue with the 'steering' that Max had was that on the last pit stop when they dropped the car off the front jack it seems like they caught a track rod on the RHS knocking the front steering alignment way out. It was amazing that he could drive the thing after that.
I think with McLaren etc that that issue is mostly down to the Merc PU. The bottom three teams - of the ones that finished :) - McLaren Aston Martin and Williams ALL use Merc PU's and the likes of Hass and AR which seem incredibly better this season are using Ferrari PUs.

It would also appear that Max was having some issues with fuelling from mid race (Just after BOX 2) when he was noticing what he thought was an ERS issue. I am sure that will all be sorted for next weekend as whatever failed on the fuel supply/system was seemingly common to all 3 RBPT cars. It would have been interesting for Sergio to be half way around a corner on the bloody last lap with his boot down to suddenly lose all power ! - jeez, a classic power off oversteer spin.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

User avatar
jph
Posts: 2846
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:50 pm
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow..

Re: Formula 1 .....

#80 Post by jph »

Saudi 2022. Absolutely superb race. Ferrari are nearly on par with the RedBulls which is great to see. Excellent win by the World Champion - Max !
Le Clerc did REALLY well - impressive - as he is not normally the most 'stable' when under pressure especially on street circuits.... ;)
The RedBull power unit is amazing this year, as is the Ferrari unit. I believe there will be updates for RB in Australia for Aero so that will be interesting as they are losing time with rear stability. I am sure they will iron that out.
Seems like Mr. Wolfe and Mr. Hamilton has screwed the pooch along with Mercedes overall. Not only is the power unit a very poor third but the aero has severe issues as well. For Hamilton the triple Whammy is that Russell is also easily outdriving him at this stage and Sir lewis the 10th cannot cope with that. Oh how things have changed.
The mercs are also in a really bad position with their aero as that sidepod (lack of) design cannot simply be tweaked. Hopefully they can pull something out of the hat as it will be great to watch Russell outclass him. The Alfa's are going to be outclassing merc pretty soon if they have anything up their sleeve as ALL the Merc powered cars are struggling and they have the Ferrari PU in the back, and - Bottas !
Looks like the makings of a classic season.
I think they need to reduce the DRS delta to around 0.7 from 1.0 though. There is certainly talk of this and it may well happen later in the season.
Australia next.

Superb start.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

Post Reply