Keith 737 mip

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Keith Baxter
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Re: Keith 737 mip

#51 Post by Keith Baxter »

jph wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 6:01 pm Hi @Keith Baxter
Just in case you missed the last post. If you get chance I would really appreciate the measurements if at all possibly for you. ?
Cheers
Joe.
Hi Joe,

Sorry, The inside dims are in mm as per post #34 . I am confident that those measurements are accurate with the steel rule I have. It was calibrated about 30 odd years but I think that calibration cert is OOD. I do not have vernier calipers big enough to measure finer. :lol:

BTW I cannot find the bezel stl source I downloaded somewhere. :oops: Will do some detective work. :roll:

Keith

EDIT: Found the thingiverse link. It is Karls (737DIYSIM ) work.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3884377
AMD RYZEN 9 5950X CPU, Corsair H80I cooler, ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PLUS AMD Ryzen Mother Board,  32Gb ram Corsair Vengeance 3000Mh, MSI GTX960 4G graphics card 

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Re: Keith 737 mip

#52 Post by jph »

Hi Keith,
I am not understanding your bezel dimensions -
Ralph I am not sure. The CockpitSimParts DU frame, right in the pic, is 178x173. The frame I got from another source( don't rem where) is 188x170
So I looks like it is a 7"x 7" square screen. 178mm x 178mm
For example, a 188 x 170 would not be able to be used with a 178x178 display screen.
Or did you mean 178 x170 ?

Also, I would appreciate the measurements of the OUTSIDE of the frame as well. The cockpitsimparts one is the most relevant.
It appears from what you are saying that the visible area - the open section of the bezel on the CSP bezel is 178x173 ?

Karls one I am not concerned about, but thanks for the link . The CSP one would act as a benchmark. I am not wanting to make one !. It is to assess the size requirements of MODERN LCD display units to use behind dual DUs and also to see where measurement have either been shaved or can be.. It will almost certainly be possible.
It would be appreciated to get the outside dimensions of that one and also if you confirm 178x173 and, if so, in which orientation. The base of the panel, as you know, is the one with the simulated handle hinge in. If it is 178 x 173, for example, is it 178 Wide or 173 wide ?, and also please, as said, the outer width and height in relation to the base (lower edge) and if the bezel width (the frame width between the open inner view area and the outer side) is equal on both sides ?
Cheers.
Joe
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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Keith Baxter
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Re: Keith 737 mip

#53 Post by Keith Baxter »

HI
@jph The CSP CPT and FO DU's sit side by side with no gap between them.

Karls DU frame
OD W215 x H205 x 5 thick
ID W188 x H170 x 5 thick
the height of the frame at the bottom is 21mm

CSP DU frame
OD W210 x H209 x 5 thick
ID W178 x H173 x 5 thick
the height of the frame at the bottom is 19mm
https://www.cockpitsimparts.co.uk/mip/7 ... rames.html

Keith
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Re: Keith 737 mip

#54 Post by jph »

deleted as I am being slow this morning................ ;)
Last edited by jph on Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Keith Baxter
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Re: Keith 737 mip

#55 Post by Keith Baxter »

Joe,

210 left to right (W)
209 top to bottom. (H)

The height from top of the frame to the top of the cutout is 17mm
The height from bottom of the frame to the bottom of the cutout is 19mm
https://www.737diysim.com/737-mip-details


Keith
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Re: Keith 737 mip

#56 Post by jph »

Excellent, thanks Keith,
Well, good news. It is certainly possible to use modern - fully up to date - LED lit and full IPS panels for the Dual DU units and also for the centre unit and the lower unit.
The DU panels will need to be specially made with a 2mm shift of the internal cut-out for the DU pairs. That would mean that the 'Captain's Left DU would have the same frame size but the inner cutout is shifted 2.5mm to the RIGHT, and the Captain's Right DU would have the same frame size but with the inner cutout shifted 2.5mm to the LEFT.
That would give a 'visible panel width' of the combined cutouts of the pair of DUs at 384mm . Perfect Then we can use a Laptop 17.3 inch screen. Latest full IPS LED Backlit.
It would be an eDP panel and controller at FULL HD (1920 x 1080)
Centre screen would be a 14" Laptop IPS panel at with 1366 x 768 or 1920 x 1080, same controller spec.

Lower screen is an oddball and the best one is the IPAD4 screen with a custom controller (not expensive) These are VERY high res - overkill really, at 2048 x 1536

ALL can be made fully dimmable by AM as I can drive the backlight units via PWM from AM / Arduino and an Opto-isolator although the Opto is not really needed.

These can replace the old stuff that everyone seems to be using. It is all totally obsolete now and has no dim capability.
Last edited by jph on Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Keith 737 mip

#57 Post by Keith Baxter »

Thanks Joe.

This is the one most use.

https://www.panelook.com/LM185WH1-TLA1_ ... _4747.html

Keith
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Re: Keith 737 mip

#58 Post by jph »

Yeah, that's what I have found. It is fairly vintage tech in LCD terms. It uses a CCFL high voltage backlight and TN panel and the viewing angles are pretty terrible. I have the later versions, the ones fitted to the HP W1972A Monitor, exactly the same size but with low voltage LED backlight. Still with TN panel but 'slightly' better viewing angles. I have a couple of the actual monitors complete. Nicer, still low resolution and not a patch on IPS displays which have amazing viewing angles.

Any design that uses the one you mentioned will also, no doubt, be using the LCD out of a 16" LCD TV for the centre display and a '10"' TV/Monitor (9.7") for the lower. Both those are low res and again, totally obsolete. Aliexpress are selling the 10" unit (actually a 9.7) in 1024 x768 4:3 ratio but the IPAD3 or 4 LCD panel is exactly the same size and 4:3 ratio. The screen and driver unit (HDMI) are about 60 euros for the IPAD jobby. I can send some image of that in a few weeks when it gets here. It is supposed to be 15 days delivery.

The lower one is a bugger because it has to fit in between the two FMCs. on ALL designs that I have ever seen, including opencockpits 40 grand commercial kit etc the lower screen is alway a 4:3 ratio 9.7". This means that it has a visible area of 197mm x 148mm so is too 'narrow' really - by around 15mm per size.. but it isnt an issue due to the display on the lower screen as you never see the image to the full width and again, that is what they ALL use - well, they use the old tech crap viewing angle low res 9.7 so might as well lob a nice shiny IPAD high res IPS unit in... with dimming.

Originally when people were looking for monitors / displays / panels there were no custom driver boards available so you really needed a panel IN a monitor or tv so that you could get the driver board and power supply but that is no longer the case so we have MUCH more freedom.

Oh, and you might like this for chronometers or if you wanted a third standby .. I have one of these on the way to check out as it looks really neat ! it is 4" DIAGONAL so 2.83 x 2.83 VISIBLE. VERY nice.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003 ... l4WPt&mp=1
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Re: Keith 737 mip

#59 Post by jph »

Just a quick clarification on when I said 'dimmable' ... none of the displays are actually 'dimmable' externally apart from via the on screen menu and brightness - the brightness adjusts backlight in it's most basic form.

ALL panels, including the older CCFL types are externally dimmable, but it is something we have to make.
As they arrive, each panel has a backlight, being either CCFL or LED. The controller chip from the HDMI board sends a PWM signal to the voltage stabiliser circuit, either High Voltage for CCFL or Low Voltage for LED, and the voltage is varied via the PWM signal. What we can do is physically disconnect this link between the output of the PWM brightness control signal main controller IC on the driver board, usually this goes from one of it's GPIO pins to a Fet gate driver. We simply interface an I/O pin from the PICO flashed with AM and use the HW PWM to take over the job. The main board is no wiser and we now have full control. The PICO will not be dedicated to this task so can be used for any other I/O work. All the spare pins can be used as normal. Each panel controller board should have it's own PICO (or Arduino) to avoid long cable runs for the PWM driver to the panel. Each panel can be individually controlled, or all together. Again, all by AM using Analog in and HW PWM OUT.

If someone IS using the old panels and wanted to add dimming then it is entirely possible. It is exactly the same process, New or old type it still is a custom design but straightforward.

----------------

I am also revisiting the EICAS (Centre DU on the MIP). I am not convinced by the measurements and monitor size / space quoted by opencockpits. I have emailed them to check.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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Keith Baxter
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Re: Keith 737 mip

#60 Post by Keith Baxter »

Joe,

The DU brightness is controlled separately by the knee lights panel.
I have done the hardware panels for that. They are in the store.

Boeing 737-800X - Zibo Knee-CPT lights panel

What I am saying is. The bright and dim is controlled in code. Not via general backlight. The PDF has its own dimmer and the ND has its own dimmer and the center DU has its own dimmer and the bottom DU its own dimmer.

Keith
AMD RYZEN 9 5950X CPU, Corsair H80I cooler, ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PLUS AMD Ryzen Mother Board,  32Gb ram Corsair Vengeance 3000Mh, MSI GTX960 4G graphics card 

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