AM4 is giving me ghost inputs

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danielogg
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:06 am

AM4 is giving me ghost inputs

#1 Post by danielogg »

Hello everyone,

I bought AM4 last week and I have been using it a lot the last few days. I have started getting these awkward random inputs. First I thought it was a coincidence and that my yoke was dying.
Then I downloaded DIView app so I could keep track of all the inputs of the joystick. To my surprise, even letting the app run for 30 hours didn't give me a single random input.
If I use AM4 though, after about 5 minutes I start getting this very short but consistent (every few minutes) button inputs (with only MSFS open it won't do that). DIView tells me Button 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 25 were clicked.
The only thing I could notice is that the button 25 is configured as my right fuel tank selector on flight simulator and I have a cessna 172 tank selector on my air manager panel. The other buttons are not even configured to do anything. If I put the
tank on the left selector it will give me random signal of buttons 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 23. 23 is the button I use for left tank select.

I also had to reinstall the plugin 3 times because they crashed and after crashing they would not work anymore.

I have just made my first actual home cockpit and having those random commands is driving me crazy :oops: and making the software not usable.
Can someone please enlighten me on how to fix this issue?

Thanks a lot in advance!

[My setup: CH Eclipse yoke, Saitek rudder pedals, logitech switch, multi panel and radio + AM4 running on a separate monitor]

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Ralph
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Location: De Steeg
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Re: AM4 is giving me ghost inputs

#2 Post by Ralph »

You would be the first one ever, and this is not something Air Manager does.
I've said it quite a few times here on the forums. People always think that our software does the weirdest things. This has been going on for years, but it never has been true, it was always something else. Pretty frustrating for us as well :) I'm afraid that you'll have to look at different software or hardware for these issues.

Also, how do you know that the plugin crashes?

danielogg
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:06 am

Re: AM4 is giving me ghost inputs

#3 Post by danielogg »

Hello Ralph!

Thanks for your answer. It is 05:30AM here and I am going to bed after spending the whole weekend (and night) testing out this bug.
After the whole weekend trying to separate out every piece of hardware and software I have with MSFS, I am 100% sure that I only have those random inputs if I
have Air Manager opened. It took me a lot of testing and narrowing possibilities until I finally got the correlation between the issues.

I am using last home version (before beta) and I have tried using both plugins (3.6 and 3.7BETA). Same results.
I am a FS user since its 5.0 version, I am a pilot as hobby and software developer for a job so I am not saying things without a lot of investigation first.

If I close AM I immediately stop having that issue. There is no way for me to think at this point it is something else.
I am not stating that the software is the problem necessarily but I am pretty sure there is some kind of relation between softwares that is causing it and it only happens with AM4 in use.

Here is my last log:

Code: Select all

30-08-2021 05:27:16 INFO Main: Starting plugin (3.6.0 )...
30-08-2021 05:27:16 INFO Main: Done initializing!
30-08-2021 05:27:16 INFO Main: Serving forever...
30-08-2021 05:27:16 INFO SimConnectHandler: Created SimConnect handle: 00000271E47FE540
30-08-2021 05:27:17 INFO SimConnectHandler: Received SimConnect Open event
30-08-2021 05:27:17 ERROR SimConnectHandler: EXCEPTION=32  SendID=6  Index=1  cbData=24
30-08-2021 05:27:59 INFO SimRemoteServer: Accepted connection from 192.168.0.9
30-08-2021 05:28:00 INFO SimBusServer: New client connected on port 55558 (ext. port 63956)
30-08-2021 05:28:00 INFO SimBusServer: New client connected on port 55561 (ext. port 63700)
30-08-2021 05:28:00 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "si/backlight_intensity" with unit "DOUBLE"
30-08-2021 05:28:00 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "TITLE" with unit "string"
30-08-2021 05:28:00 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "LIGHT PANEL" with unit "bool"
30-08-2021 05:28:00 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "LIGHT NAV" with unit "bool"
30-08-2021 05:28:00 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ELECTRICAL MAIN BUS VOLTAGE" with unit "volts"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "HEADING INDICATOR" with unit "degrees"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "AIRSPEED INDICATED" with unit "knots"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "L:AirspeedIndicatedNeedle" with unit "number"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ADF CARD" with unit "degrees"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ADF RADIAL:1" with unit "degrees"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "INDICATED ALTITUDE" with unit "feet"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "KOHLSMAN SETTING HG" with unit "inhg"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "GENERAL ENG OIL PRESSURE:1" with unit "psi"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "SUCTION PRESSURE" with unit "inhg"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "FUEL TANK LEFT MAIN QUANTITY" with unit "gallons"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "FUEL TANK RIGHT MAIN QUANTITY" with unit "gallons"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "L:XMLVAR_DayNightSwitch" with unit "double"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ELEVATOR TRIM INDICATOR" with unit "position"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "NAV OBS:1" with unit "degrees"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "NAV HAS NAV:1" with unit "bool"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "NAV TOFROM:1" with unit "enum"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "NAV GS FLAG:1" with unit "bool"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "VERTICAL SPEED" with unit "feet per minute"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ENG OIL PRESSURE:1" with unit "psi"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ENG OIL TEMPERATURE:1" with unit "fahrenheit"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "NAV GSI:1" with unit "number"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "NAV CDI:1" with unit "number"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "GENERAL ENG RPM:1" with unit "rpm"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "GENERAL ENG ELAPSED TIME:1" with unit "hours"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "NAV OBS:2" with unit "degrees"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "GENERAL ENG EXHAUST GAS TEMPERATURE:1" with unit "fahrenheit"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ENG FUEL FLOW GPH:1" with unit "gallons per hour"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "L:Eng1_GPH" with unit "gallons"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "L:Eng1_EGTGauge" with unit "number"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "NAV HAS NAV:2" with unit "bool"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "NAV TOFROM:2" with unit "enum"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "NAV GS FLAG:2" with unit "bool"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "RECIP ENG FUEL TANK SELECTOR:1" with unit "enum"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "TRAILING EDGE FLAPS LEFT PERCENT" with unit "percent over 100"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ATC ID" with unit "string"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "NAV CDI:2" with unit "number"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "TURN COORDINATOR BALL" with unit "position"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "TURN INDICATOR RATE" with unit "radians"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "L:FuelLeftWingTank" with unit "gallons"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "L:FuelRightWingTank" with unit "gallons"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "SUCTION PRESSURE" with unit "inches of mercury"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ELECTRICAL BATTERY BUS AMPS" with unit "amperes"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ATTITUDE INDICATOR BANK DEGREES" with unit "radians"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ATTITUDE INDICATOR PITCH DEGREES" with unit "radians"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "PARTIAL PANEL VACUUM" with unit "enum"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "AUTOPILOT HEADING LOCK DIR" with unit "degrees"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "L:HeadingGyro" with unit "degrees"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "L:AutopilotHeadingBug" with unit "number"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ZULU TIME" with unit "hours"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ZULU TIME" with unit "minutes"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "LOCAL TIME" with unit "hours"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "LOCAL TIME" with unit "minutes"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "SIM TIME" with unit "seconds"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "AMBIENT TEMPERATURE" with unit "celsius"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "TRANSPONDER CODE:1" with unit "enum"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "TRANSPONDER STATE:1" with unit "enum"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "PRESSURE ALTITUDE" with unit "feet"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ZULU TIME" with unit "seconds"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ELECTRICAL BATTERY VOLTAGE" with unit "volts"
30-08-2021 05:28:01 ERROR SimConnectHandler: EXCEPTION=7  SendID=112  Index=2  cbData=24
30-08-2021 05:28:01 ERROR SimConnectHandler: EXCEPTION=3  SendID=113  Index=-1  cbData=24
30-08-2021 05:28:11 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "GPS DRIVES NAV1" with unit "bool"
30-08-2021 05:28:11 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "BRAKE PARKING POSITION" with unit "position"
30-08-2021 05:28:11 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "ELECTRICAL BATTERY LOAD" with unit "amperes"
30-08-2021 05:28:11 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "AUTOPILOT ALTITUDE LOCK VAR" with unit "feet"
30-08-2021 05:28:11 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "PLANE HEADING DEGREES MAGNETIC" with unit "degrees"
30-08-2021 05:28:14 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "GEAR CENTER POSITION" with unit "percent"
30-08-2021 05:28:14 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "GEAR LEFT POSITION" with unit "percent"
30-08-2021 05:28:14 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "GEAR RIGHT POSITION" with unit "percent"
30-08-2021 05:28:14 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "FUEL TANK SELECTOR:1" with unit "enum"
30-08-2021 05:28:14 INFO SimBusServerProviderPool: Succesfull bind to variable "FUEL TANK SELECTOR:2" with unit "enum"
30-08-2021 05:31:44 ERROR SimRemoteServer: Lost connection with client: Foi forçado o cancelamento de uma conexão existente pelo host remoto. 
30-08-2021 05:31:57 INFO SimConnectHandler: Received SimConnect Quit event
30-08-2021 05:31:57 INFO SimBusServer: Closed down client with port 63700
30-08-2021 05:31:57 INFO SimBusServer: Closed down client with port 63956
I really enjoy using AM4 and the team that made is awesome! I really hope we can try to figure it out so I can use it with my home cockpit. It will also be my pleasure to be of any help if I can.

danielogg
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:06 am

Re: AM4 is giving me ghost inputs

#4 Post by danielogg »

Ralph wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:29 am You would be the first one ever, and this is not something Air Manager does.
I've said it quite a few times here on the forums. People always think that our software does the weirdest things. This has been going on for years, but it never has been true, it was always something else. Pretty frustrating for us as well :) I'm afraid that you'll have to look at different software or hardware for these issues.

Also, how do you know that the plugin crashes?
I forgot to answer about the plugin. Well, flight simulator crashed all those times. Afterwards air manager wouldn't connect anymore so I had to reinstall it. Maybe it was MSFS fault but airmanager would not work properly anymore.

User avatar
Ralph
Posts: 7878
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: De Steeg
Contact:

Re: AM4 is giving me ghost inputs

#5 Post by Ralph »

That's most probably a connection issue, not the plugin crashing. The plugin runs outside of the simulator, so it cannot make the simulator crash.

I still think that the other issue has to be sought after somewhere else. Because out of a couple of thousands, you would be the only one having this issue. And as I said, it happens to us quite often that people are absolutely sure that our software does X or Y, and then eventually it is always something else.

Aside from that. We're on a holiday the upcoming two weeks, so it'll be a while before we can help. The only thing I can do right now is give you a refund.

Tetrachromat
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:55 pm

Re: AM4 is giving me ghost inputs

#6 Post by Tetrachromat »

This.

Code: Select all

30-08-2021 05:31:44 ERROR SimRemoteServer: Lost connection with client: Foi forçado o cancelamento de uma conexão existente pelo host remoto. 
looks suspicious to me. Why have an error message in portuguese language in between all english messages?

I would recommend doing a analysis based on Simmconnect logging. Could be a simconnect port clash with another client. What software from Brazil/Portugal are you using?

Paul

User avatar
jph
Posts: 2846
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:50 pm
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow..

Re: AM4 is giving me ghost inputs

#7 Post by jph »

Hi Paul, I am guessing that the OS is Portuguese. ?
there is a start event at the beginning - SimRemoteServer: Accepted connection from 192.168.0.9
I am presuming this is the IP address of the actual machine (the 'remote' host / msfs) - then the Portuguese message is showing a disconnect initiated by that same remote host - so again presuming an issue with msfs as the remote host....
Joe (in Portugal but with UK English OS) - difficult for me to tell if that is Brazil Portuguese or Portuguese Portuguese.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

Tetrachromat
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:55 pm

Re: AM4 is giving me ghost inputs

#8 Post by Tetrachromat »

Joe, now that you say, I remember seeing that message (in German language) in my logs as well.

@danielogg, If you see the button events in DIView, then the events are really coming from your controller.

AM can't send button presses via the plugin to MSFS2020. Even if it could, they would not show up in DIView. DIView sits between Controller and MSFS2020. Between AM and MSFS2020 there is only SimConnect and the plugin (which is basically a bridge between AM and SimConnect). That's why I recommend checking the SimConnect logs. You may need to activate logging and setup 'Normal' logging to get more info.

With the logs you can check what SimConnect clients connect to MSFS2020 as well as what events/variable writes are sent to MSFS2020.

BTW: Do you use the CH Control Manager software?

Paul

danielogg
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:06 am

Re: AM4 is giving me ghost inputs

#9 Post by danielogg »

Hello again guys! I know my issue is very very weird. Thank you all very much for trying to help, I really appreciate!

Ralph, thank you very much for your input. Us workers need holidays so enjoy yours the more you can! Would it be ok if I made some further testing before I ask a refund (if needed)?
Maybe the community or some other staff member might be able to help, as I just posted this today?

JPH and Tetrachromat, yes, I use brazilian portuguese Windows 10 as I live in Brazil.

Guys, I have been testing it since friday non stop. I underclocked my GPU so it wouldn't spend so much energy and FS is running ever since (with 6 or 7 reboots in between for tests) alternating AM4 on and off.
During my sleep and work hours I leave it flying from somewhere to anywhere and keep track in DIView how the joystick inputs behave (as I am doing right now, during work hours).

I made some pictures to show you guys. The file names are self explanatory (images seem to not be working but the links are):

FIRST, this is my home cockpit in progress:

Image
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wwhdM2 ... rOojQupmhO

Here are the screenshots. The titles will tell you how long AM4 was on or off in all cases.

Image
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10EN4V6 ... LZuA9wJuQV

Image
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AntRT9 ... dYryVvVYcr

Image
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BIE2WY ... mjB4sxyJkj

Image
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T8egOI ... ezC0y837VU

Image
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kXfKdH ... 7TUpLWynGI

Image
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lJ9_7R ... MbPREU44Vk



Basically, what it shows, is that I have ZERO random inputs whatsoever even after a 12 hours flight without using AM4.
In the other hand, if I open up air manager 4, it will start giving me some random inputs 5 minutes later (generally is like 1 or 2 minutes, sometimes 5 if too much).
I have replicated it over and over and over again always with same results. Before testing air manager I tested only joystick for like 30 hours with ZERO random inputs as well.

The best clue I have is that my joystick has a fuel valve selector configured and If I change it, the random input also changes and starts giving me (as one of the inputs) the 23 button (which is left valve selector). If I select the right one it will give me button 25.
ONLY WHEN AM4 IS RUNNING, as pictures show.

Thank you all one more time! I hope I can get this right as this will be my best setup ever. =)

danielogg
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:06 am

Re: AM4 is giving me ghost inputs

#10 Post by danielogg »

Tetrachromat wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:04 am Joe, now that you say, I remember seeing that message (in German language) in my logs as well.

@danielogg, If you see the button events in DIView, then the events are really coming from your controller.

AM can't send button presses via the plugin to MSFS2020. Even if it could, they would not show up in DIView. DIView sits between Controller and MSFS2020. Between AM and MSFS2020 there is only SimConnect and the plugin (which is basically a bridge between AM and SimConnect). That's why I recommend checking the SimConnect logs. You may need to activate logging and setup 'Normal' logging to get more info.

With the logs you can check what SimConnect clients connect to MSFS2020 as well as what events/variable writes are sent to MSFS2020.

BTW: Do you use the CH Control Manager software?

Paul
Tetra, I will do that. I will google on how to activate sim connect log and monitor it. And no, I don't use CH Control Manager and have never used it, with no problems so far.
I was reading somewhere the driver is plug and play anyway, the software is only a way of mapping buttons as far as I know. Am I wrong?

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