DIY Knobster almost no reaction. [solved]

Support for the SimWareKits Knobster in combination with Air Manager and Air Player

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Sling
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Re: DIY Knobster almost no reaction.

#11 Post by Sling »

Glad to be of assistance and glad it’s now all working. Joe did mention the 5v before but perhaps wasn’t aware of the importance for this particular encoder. It just so happens I’ve played with them in the past and know they need it. The fuzzy operation as you described it will be down to the encoder. As I said in my last post not the most Suitable candidate. The knobster code was developed with an Elma dual encoder in mind so will work better with one of those. You may be able to improve the performance using some external circuitry but if you want the faster spinning to work better I’d start with a more suitable encoder.

Please let me know what the issue is with the Kodiak. I was thinking of picking that up at some point down the track but not if it’s buggy.

Tony

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Langschwert
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Re: DIY Knobster almost no reaction.

#12 Post by Langschwert »

I´m in Germany so I have to take what I can get here. If I wanted a fitting (affordable) dual encoder I´ll have to order it in China and that easily may take six weeks. Ordering from the US is beyond question because of the insane shipping costs, taxes and customs, therefore I can´t be too picky. I will set up a two encoder solution instead of a dual encoder solution but I will place an order in China and we will se what the postman will bring to me. Time is monkey. :)
Save the woods! Eat more squirrels!

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Sling
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Re: DIY Knobster almost no reaction.

#13 Post by Sling »

Langschwert wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:59 am I´m in Germany so I have to take what I can get here. If I wanted a fitting (affordable) dual encoder I´ll have to order it in China and that easily may take six weeks. Ordering from the US is beyond question because of the insane shipping costs, taxes and customs, therefore I can´t be too picky. I will set up a two encoder solution instead of a dual encoder solution but I will place an order in China and we will se what the postman will bring to me. Time is monkey. :)
I totally understand I really do. You think the size of the mainland Europe market is bad you should try somewhere miles from anywhere with a population of just over 20 million. It’s a wonder I can get anything and don’t get me started on the prices and shipping. Still I’ve learnt to be patient.

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Re: DIY Knobster almost no reaction.

#14 Post by jph »

Fair point Tony.
I never had an issue with the encoders but after reading your post I do seem to remember once having a problem with WPU and one of these KY-40 type boards a year or two back - so out of interest just looked at my parts box and the reason I have no issues is that I had removed the offending 10K pullups resistors from the KY board - a flick of the iron is all that's needed - or a 'crunch'.... . All the ones I have at hand have had the resistors removed and work perfectly.

If you don't do this and don't connect the + to 5V then you effectively have a 20K resistor (2 x 10k in series) directly across the A and B pins. Yikes.. not good.

Without the 10K resistors on the KY board there is absolutely no issue at all and the encoder will work perfectly with WPU and nothing connected to + ... well, there IS nothing connected to plus now... . So, yes, either use the + to Arduino 5V, or imho simply remove the 2 x 10K on the KY board with either an iron or a pair of side cutters - takes seconds ;) . It is 100% definitely not an issue with the Encoder itself/ The encoders are great, it is purely the damn superfluous resistors. They also used to fit a 10k pullup resistor on the button as well... but they omitted this from later designs. - you can see the empty pads on the board if you look at one.

On another note, I use the KY-40s on arduinos and they never miss a beat no matter how fast as I can turn them by hand - even flicking them around, however - I always use an interrupt routine on one of the pins. - You only need the interrupt on a single pin. The action is then bullet proof.

Also a point re dual concentric encoders from china, super quality ! - but getting knobs for them is simply not possible - or - if you can find some, buy them as you will make a fortune. :) - they are rarer than rocking horse Sh!t.... ;)

Glad you got it all sorted.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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Sling
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Re: DIY Knobster almost no reaction.

#15 Post by Sling »

It’s not the encoders as such but rather the fact that the knobster Arduino code is fixed. Using different code these encoders may well be fine but the knobster code was based around using the Elma type. I think originally it wasn’t even possible to change the detents per pulse so that ruled out a few types. With no adjustable software debounce it means that with just a bare encoder some work better than others when spinning fast. This could probably be improved with external components but for the less experienced users it’s easier to locate a more suitable encoder. Maybe still not perfect but better. This is based on past experience with the AM solution and has nothing to do with using encoders in general. That said I’ve not connected an encoder to AM in a while.

Just my observations.

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jph
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Re: DIY Knobster almost no reaction.

#16 Post by jph »

Yeah, it would be very interesting to try a back to back comparison on a knobster diy with the Elna and the KY unit.
I am surprised that the DIY knobster doesn't use interrupts and a debounce - if the code in the knobster is touchy regarding encoders - as this would remove that issue altogether at the hardware end. I think Corjan said that the later commercial units use HID or CDC ? can't remember exactly. Also iirc the original code wasn't done by SIM INNO - I think...
It is still excellent to have a diy option though. Although I have no use for the Knobster I know its a great device and damn useful. My bro has one (commercial one) and swears by it.
I can dig out the encoder Interrupt and debounce code I use for the arduino if anyone is interested ? - mind you, that is straying off topic.
I still think Ralph should sell the encoders and knobs for other projects :D
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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Sling
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Re: DIY Knobster almost no reaction.

#17 Post by Sling »

Only going from memory here so might be a bit off but I think it uses polling but does have some debounce. The issue we’ve seen with the debounce is the amount varies with encoder. The normal API encoder debounce can be set and is a very useful thing. It would be nice if that could also be added to the knobster but I guess the simplicity would be somewhat compromised if an inexperienced user had to alter both the detents setting and tweak the debounce value. I need to dig out my DIY knobster at some point and have a play. I use the official one normally and like everyone else I love it.

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Re: DIY Knobster almost no reaction. [solved]

#18 Post by WokkelP »

I might be pulling up an old topic here but I'm having an Issue with my Encoder for my DIY Knobster too.
I'm using the ELMA Encoder (two singles) from Leo Bodnar. Just the encoders, wired up to the arduino as per the wiki.
Every 2 detents result in one "click".
I don't see an option to change the number of detents per click anywhere, yet people are talking about that here.
Can anyone help me?

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Re: DIY Knobster almost no reaction. [solved]

#19 Post by Ralph »

Select the Knobster in the Home tab and you will see the detent settings.

WokkelP
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Re: DIY Knobster almost no reaction. [solved]

#20 Post by WokkelP »

Ralph wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:45 pm Select the Knobster in the Home tab and you will see the detent settings.
Life saver! I had to set my Elma encoder to 4 detents/pulse

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