Selfmade gauges on Android?

Help with Air Manager Android version

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SimPassion
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Re: Selfmade gauges on Android?

#21 Post by SimPassion » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:05 pm

I don't pretend to have the solution, just some thoughts and gave some inputs,
to bring something "to eat" to the sharing :-)
The security concern was my passion and all which give some huge and interesting projects in my career
The page is turned ...

Gilles

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jph
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Re: Selfmade gauges on Android?

#22 Post by jph » Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:43 pm

Well that one went off topic rapidly !

So, back to android.......

Personally, I think it is crazy that you cannot use your own gauges - AND test them on android. To me it is simply not worth spending money on. The idea of submitting a gauge you have worked on for 'approval' is terrible. If I make a gauge it is surely up to me if I 'publish' it or not. some gauges I may not want to make public.

If the android version was free, then ok, but having to pay for the privilege of developing a gauge, to submit for approval to then, possibly be allowed to put your own work on your own tablet / device is - again imho - crazy. This also means that the program becomes 'more attractive' to potential purchasers due to an increase in the number of gauges forced to be submitted for 'approval' and then publishing. It is, for SI, having your cake and eating it :? :shock:
AND - and its a big AND --- there are a limited amount of gauges of use to download - for example - a great use may be as a radio stack for a 10" tablet.. but, there is no panel available free or payware that will work on android - or is available for android.

There is a simple answer that people can try depending on their machines performance with the sim running. That is to use one of the many 'desktop' expansion programs.
One such program is spacedesk - spacedesk.net this is currently free - and is rumoured to be free for home use when the commercial version is available. What these programs basically do is allow any networked device - including android ! to be added as an extra monitor in windows - over the network. The android device is seen as a normal monitor 'attached' to the windows box. you can drag windows onto it - including panels.....
When running heavy use 3d apps there may be issues with frame rates (not on the android device - but on the main machine. It is a case of suck it and see.
If AM is on a separate box from your sim - then there is no issue at all. you can put as many android devices as you want and they are all seen as extra monitors in windows and a simple desktop expansion. You can use it for test ALL gauges for size and look etc before committing to buying something that is - imho - darn expensive and limited.
You may well be able to use the system as is. My tests with it have been fine. if you download spacedesk or one of the others (check the price first !) - spacedesk is free at the moment - you can test it really quickly with your pc and a tablet or android device. It is really really simple to operate.

if an android - air player - version ever comes out then great, I will happily buy it. I havent tried it with many android devices but in theory you could hook up half a dozen to one box lol :) ... all seen as just another windows monitor... all windows versions from 7 upwards, most every IOS and Android >4.1. I believe you can even run it on a Pi in an htlm browser - and linux etc..

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Corjan
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Re: Selfmade gauges on Android?

#23 Post by Corjan » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:58 pm

Hi,

Still agree, would be cool to have AP on Android. But the fact of the matter is that we don't have time to tackle this problem.
Calling it crazy is going a bit to far I think. AM on Android is worth its money on its own, and we never advertise any way that you can develop instruments on it.

Corjan

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jph
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Re: Selfmade gauges on Android?

#24 Post by jph » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:28 pm

Hi Corjan
'crazy' was a bad choice of words. :)

I fail to see the product as 'air manager' though. Creating a gauge on even a 10" tablet is a nightmare.
It is like the gynaecologist who practised his skill by papering his hall through his letter-box ............. :geek:

AP would definitely be the best.

Also, is there an actual up to date list of what is available to download for android - most paid panels say 'not available for android' when you look closely.

Also, a thing to consider, the version numbers of android you list as being supported. I would advise caution on versions before 4.4. There is an issue (unless you have found a way around this ?) where the nav bar will pop up and stay up whenever you touch the screen. This is not specific to your program, it is a general issue and happens with screen extenders etc. I believe the SDK after 4.4 allowed the nav bar to remain hidden ?.

Some of the more expensive tablets had external nav buttons, however many had them as part of the system within the window on a bar. I am sure you will know what I mean.. these can cause a nightmare. If you have cured this problem on 4.2.2 for example - then it becomes more attractive as a simple download and display device - certainly not - imho - as a device to program on though.

I would definitely like to see an up to date list of what is available.

thanks for the great work as always.
“Everything in moderation, including moderation.”
“Experience is merely the name men gave to their mistakes.”
Joe (CISSP) -IT security consultant

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Ralph
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Re: Selfmade gauges on Android?

#25 Post by Ralph » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:32 am

The nav bar is indeed a bit annoying. But once you have it hidden and don't touch that area, it will stay hidden. At least on our old tablet it does.

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Sling
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Re: Selfmade gauges on Android?

#26 Post by Sling » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:25 am

From the web site.
Air Manager is an application which allows you to create your own 2D flight simulator panels. You can run it on the same computer as your flight simulator, or on a seperate computer.
It will automatically connect to your X-plane, FSX or Prepar3d flight simulator on your local network.
Choose your panel from one of the included 20 pre-made panels, or create your own from a library of more than 620 free instruments.
Is the instrument you are looking for not in our library? No problem, you can create your own by using our simple API in combination with the Lua scripting language.
If I can make a suggestion.

I think these words are maybe what causes the confusion. For a newbie creating panels in the first sentence could be construed as also what we know as instruments. After all if an instrument is not already available you can’t create your panel. The last part that refers to using the API to create your own instruments does not make it clear that this can only be done on desktop.

I think because both the tablet Apps are called Air Manager then it’s easy to think they have the same features but on a different platform. Perhaps you should consider calling them Air Manager Lite or something similar and perhaps also a feature comparison table showing what features come with each. I’m sure it would help people understand the differences.

Tony

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jph
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Re: Selfmade gauges on Android?

#27 Post by jph » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:08 pm

Ralph wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:32 am
The nav bar is indeed a bit annoying. But once you have it hidden and don't touch that area, it will stay hidden. At least on our old tablet it does.
Hi Ralph, yes, that is the case. but that makes it a HUGE issue as an ideal use for a 10" tablet is for a nice 'touch' Bendix King radio stack - or if you are into the metal - an FMC, or even that new fangled GPS thingy where magic angels point to your location ... lol... :D -- I have been told it is magic from the heavens... (and of course selective availability (SA) was not going to be used from 2000 according to Clinton... ha ! ... so they never used it in Iran even a few month ago ?) --- sorry - I am going onto security again lol)

What on earth is wrong with VOR / DME / VNAV / LNAV ??? thats how REAL pilots fly haha - sheepskin leather, scalf and 'Biggles' googles ! .. :mrgreen: :lol: :l
“Everything in moderation, including moderation.”
“Experience is merely the name men gave to their mistakes.”
Joe (CISSP) -IT security consultant

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jph
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Re: Selfmade gauges on Android?

#28 Post by jph » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:12 pm

Ralph wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:32 am
The nav bar is indeed a bit annoying. But once you have it hidden and don't touch that area, it will stay hidden. At least on our old tablet it does.
In fact, for the later tablets (from 4.4) if you adapted a bendix king stack to operate with XP (and the others - but mainly XP of course) - then you could sell that as a stand alone application for android - just on its own - no mention of air manager .... i believe it would sell very well. ! - maybe 5 euros just for that single standalone app. I would buy it.
“Everything in moderation, including moderation.”
“Experience is merely the name men gave to their mistakes.”
Joe (CISSP) -IT security consultant

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jph
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Re: Selfmade gauges on Android?

#29 Post by jph » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:28 pm

Sling wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:25 am
From the web site.
Air Manager is an application which allows you to create your own 2D flight simulator panels. You can run it on the same computer as your flight simulator, or on a seperate computer.
It will automatically connect to your X-plane, FSX or Prepar3d flight simulator on your local network.
Choose your panel from one of the included 20 pre-made panels, or create your own from a library of more than 620 free instruments.
Is the instrument you are looking for not in our library? No problem, you can create your own by using our simple API in combination with the Lua scripting language.
If I can make a suggestion.

I think these words are maybe what causes the confusion. For a newbie creating panels in the first sentence could be construed as also what we know as instruments. After all if an instrument is not already available you can’t create your panel. The last part that refers to using the API to create your own instruments does not make it clear that this can only be done on desktop.

I think because both the tablet Apps are called Air Manager then it’s easy to think they have the same features but on a different platform. Perhaps you should consider calling them Air Manager Lite or something similar and perhaps also a feature comparison table showing what features come with each. I’m sure it would help people understand the differences.

Tony
HI Tony, I agree, as of now, and after re-reading the description of the application on both the play store and the SI site -
My understanding so far of what it SAYS - or appears to -

it says you can create your own instruments ? .........
But how ? - it says with our easy to use api etc - there is no mention of needing to buy another program - so how would this be possible ?
It doesn't mention that 'if' you somehow have access to the api mentioned' that you cannot add instruments you create yourself to your own android device as I have been informed they must be submitted for approval and then published .. ... - nowhere does it say this to a potential buyer (that I know of) ?

I think it needs some real clarification.
the results of the survey point to why I think this hasn't been a real issue so far - that is the percentage of users who have not made or attempted to make their own instruments. I feel that if more people actually got interested in that part, then they would be questioning the wording of the advertising.

I think it just happens that - probably all - users simply buy it and download some gauges and make a panel.. with no interest in programming a gauge.

It also mentions using it for a radio ?

"Buttons, Switches and Knobs
Controls like Buttons, Switches, and Knobs let you control the simulator from your 2D panels, so your Flight Simulation is super realistic. Setting a radio frequency or the altimeter setting, moving electrical switches, and controlling the autopilot are just a few examples of what you can do without directly accessing the flight simulator. -

Is there a radio / comms unit to download ? - I have never seen one - only on the cessna panels and they say not available for android ? - more confused now... :shock: :?:

On the main page of the site here - it says Air Manager - it lists it for Android or PC, then the 'read more' says nothing about it NOT referring to the android version - - but surely a potential android user would believe this is applicable as it say nothing to detract from this . ?
Reading that I would be under the impression that it supports arduino on android also - which it does not..

Even if you go to the dedicated 'android instructions' page it says nothing about creating instruments...
yet it says you can on play store..

Me thinks it needs a clean up in the descriptive sense..

Joe.

Apologies if I am missing something but it appears totally misleading.
“Everything in moderation, including moderation.”
“Experience is merely the name men gave to their mistakes.”
Joe (CISSP) -IT security consultant

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Corjan
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Re: Selfmade gauges on Android?

#30 Post by Corjan » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:13 pm

HI,


You are right, it doesn't say anywhere that it is not possible.
On the other hand, it doesn't say anywhere that it does :).

We will improve the 'Read more' page, that one is a bit bland anyways. A feature table like suggested here is a good idea.


Corjan

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