Gazelle

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HughB
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Gazelle

#1 Post by HughB »

Picking this up tonight. Let the fun begin............. :D Image
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jph
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Re: Gazelle

#2 Post by jph »

Where on earth did you get that amazing bit of kit ? :D
Superb !.
I had the pleasure of a few hours 'playing' on the Gazelle (a privately owned one in Lancs UK) about 30 years ago. It was an amazing machine. It has probably THE best view from the cockpit of almost any other Helo - it seemed like you were sitting in space ! . The owner had a friend who worked for Monarch airlines as a 757 captain and was an aerobatic Helo pilot in his spare time.
Doesn't seem to be much missing, the ASI and ALT and the secondary HSI. No rad alt fitted as it is blanked anyway. You seem to have the collective. have you also got the Cyclic and pedals ?
Amazing find ! :mrgreen:
Joe
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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Ralph
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Re: Gazelle

#3 Post by Ralph »

Nice catch!
Not exactly the same, but there's a Alouette museum nearby our office: https://www.alouettemuseumbarneveld.nl/
I hope to visit them soon.

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Re: Gazelle

#4 Post by Ralph »

Off topic @Keith Baxter is probably thinking about this:

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Keith Baxter
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Re: Gazelle

#5 Post by Keith Baxter »

Ralph wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:46 pm Off topic @Keith Baxter is probably thinking about this:
Ha Ha
Jack Parow.
Made my day and put a smile on my face in these rough times.

Keith
AMD RYZEN 9 5950X CPU, Corsair H80I cooler, ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PLUS AMD Ryzen Mother Board,  32Gb ram Corsair Vengeance 3000Mh, MSI GTX960 4G graphics card 

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HughB
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Re: Gazelle

#6 Post by HughB »

jph wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:51 am Where on earth did you get that amazing bit of kit ? :D
Superb !.
I had the pleasure of a few hours 'playing' on the Gazelle (a privately owned one in Lancs UK) about 30 years ago. It was an amazing machine. It has probably THE best view from the cockpit of almost any other Helo - it seemed like you were sitting in space ! . The owner had a friend who worked for Monarch airlines as a 757 captain and was an aerobatic Helo pilot in his spare time.
Doesn't seem to be much missing, the ASI and ALT and the secondary HSI. No rad alt fitted as it is blanked anyway. You seem to have the collective. have you also got the Cyclic and pedals ?
Amazing find ! :mrgreen:
Joe
Its a very pretty bit of kit. Yes I have the Cyclic too which is amazing. Its going to be a lot of work but my because it needs to work with both DCS and Xplane is to make all the switches work via a USB interface. The exisiting instruments are a bit of an un known at the moment. Some are 28V but the artificial horizion is 200V @400hz. i really dont want to go anywhere near that kind of voltage level so the entire top section will probably end up with one or more LCD displays with HDMI switch to switch between air player pi and helios (for DCS).
The cyclic will be fully hall sensor gimballed and the collective will have to be totally built from scratch as i only have the end box. Im glad i have 2 3d printers to play with.

This is my first foray into an actual cockpit and any advice is welcome guys, especially anyone with real life experience with the Gazelle or advice on driving real instruments. I will keep this thread updated with progress.

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jph
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Re: Gazelle

#7 Post by jph »

HughB wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:11 am
jph wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:51 am Where on earth did you get that amazing bit of kit ? :D
Superb !.
I had the pleasure of a few hours 'playing' on the Gazelle (a privately owned one in Lancs UK) about 30 years ago. It was an amazing machine. It has probably THE best view from the cockpit of almost any other Helo - it seemed like you were sitting in space ! . The owner had a friend who worked for Monarch airlines as a 757 captain and was an aerobatic Helo pilot in his spare time.
Doesn't seem to be much missing, the ASI and ALT and the secondary HSI. No rad alt fitted as it is blanked anyway. You seem to have the collective. have you also got the Cyclic and pedals ?
Amazing find ! :mrgreen:
Joe
Its a very pretty bit of kit. Yes I have the Cyclic too which is amazing. Its going to be a lot of work but my because it needs to work with both DCS and Xplane is to make all the switches work via a USB interface. The exisiting instruments are a bit of an un known at the moment. Some are 28V but the artificial horizion is 200V @400hz. i really dont want to go anywhere near that kind of voltage level so the entire top section will probably end up with one or more LCD displays with HDMI switch to switch between air player pi and helios (for DCS).
The cyclic will be fully hall sensor gimballed and the collective will have to be totally built from scratch as i only have the end box. Im glad i have 2 3d printers to play with.

This is my first foray into an actual cockpit and any advice is welcome guys, especially anyone with real life experience with the Gazelle or advice on driving real instruments. I will keep this thread updated with progress.
Hello Hugh,
As they are 'real' instruments - as opposed to the sim specific variants, then driving them will be a bit of a nightmare - well, a lot.. take the AH, this is usually a 'resolver' instrument driven from a remote 'synchro' This is usually a 3 phase 400hz system where the display instrument follows the phase shift of remote sensor. as it moves (hence the AC!) Absolutely NOT an easy thing to reproduce, or indeed, cost effective unless you strip the instrument and replace the drive units (resolvers) with actuators - which in itself is often a total nightmare as the resolvers tend to be part of the bearing structure.
Usually the voltage is around 115 AC / 400hz (as opposed to 200V) Not sure where you got the 200V from ? - it wouldn't even be the voltage that was your issue, it would be the 400Hz 3 Phase / phase shift drive to the resolvers in the instrument.
For a lot of the standard rotary instruments it 'may' be possible using an air coil driver IC, again though, it is usually the end result that modifying the instrument to use a standard drive mechanism is the answer by completely stripping it back to the actually meter driver level and then adapting to that.
For switches and buttons it is absolutely not an issue. It is the panel instruments you will suffer with.
Interested also how you plan to implement the hall unit on the cyclic as this is THE most important control for HELO sim flying and needs absolutely precise resolution with no back-play. How do you plan that ?
Lovely project !
Joe
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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HughB
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Re: Gazelle

#8 Post by HughB »

Hi Joe
I am really looking forward to getting this functional.
The AHI is marked as 200v @400hz on teh Gyro side.
The whole top panel instruments may (read will) well end up as an LCD behind the panel.
For the cyclic i will use the AS5600 hall sensors with diametric button magnets. These are amazing sensors that are programmable. You can program them to output 0-5v over a specified angle. e.g 90 degrees (45 forward and 45 back) provides the full 0-5v output range so a bodnar board would be perfect. Ive tested these sensors before and they are brilliant. I will design and build a custom guimbal to hold the cyclic and the PCB's for the sensors etc and mount the magnets on each axis. Same for the pedals although the pedals wont be an exact match for the originals (unless i can find a set somewhere for cheap).
First job is to strip it all down and clean it then start looking at the switches and buttons to get them working, then next will be the simple guages (fuel qty etc) and the warning panel then the rotor rpm guage. It may be that i end up building new instruments with steppers etc. But i will get to that eventually.

The really hard part will be how to be able to support both Xplane and DCS ( this is where i wish Airmanager had an interface to DCS). LCD based instruments shoudlnt be to hard as i can switch between different HDMI sources its the physical instruments that will be tricky even if i end up re making them. The buttons etc will be the easiest part though so i will be starting there.

Cheers Hugh
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jph
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Re: Gazelle

#9 Post by jph »

HughB wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:39 am Hi Joe
I am really looking forward to getting this functional.
The AHI is marked as 200v @400hz on teh Gyro side.
The whole top panel instruments may (read will) well end up as an LCD behind the panel.
For the cyclic i will use the AS5600 hall sensors with diametric button magnets. These are amazing sensors that are programmable. You can program them to output 0-5v over a specified angle. e.g 90 degrees (45 forward and 45 back) provides the full 0-5v output range so a bodnar board would be perfect. Ive tested these sensors before and they are brilliant. I will design and build a custom guimbal to hold the cyclic and the PCB's for the sensors etc and mount the magnets on each axis. Same for the pedals although the pedals wont be an exact match for the originals (unless i can find a set somewhere for cheap).
First job is to strip it all down and clean it then start looking at the switches and buttons to get them working, then next will be the simple guages (fuel qty etc) and the warning panel then the rotor rpm guage. It may be that i end up building new instruments with steppers etc. But i will get to that eventually.

The really hard part will be how to be able to support both Xplane and DCS ( this is where i wish Airmanager had an interface to DCS). LCD based instruments shoudlnt be to hard as i can switch between different HDMI sources its the physical instruments that will be tricky even if i end up re making them. The buttons etc will be the easiest part though so i will be starting there.

Cheers Hugh
Hello Hugh,
Nice choice with the AS5600. I presume you are using them with a rotating diametric button magnet where the magnet position over the sensor is fixed but the magnet is allowed to rotate ? It is a nice unit. I will have to order a couple to play with.
I like the unit in the T.16000M Thrustmaster joystick unit as it is 3 axis where the actual magnet can move over the surface of the sensor as per a 'normal' joystick type sensor as opposed to a fixed plane rotary sensor.
Adafruit do an MLX90393 (virtually identical to the T.16000M unit) with arduino library. I am not 100% sure as to the programming of the unit (the reading is no issue) will need to check but ada are usually excellent. Might be worth looking at as they
can do a full axis in one chip.
example -
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3282101 ... d8bc5d8c-4
lib - https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_MLX90393_Library

Excellent plan Hugh and a super project.
Out of interest, where are you based ?
Joe
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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HughB
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Re: Gazelle

#10 Post by HughB »

Hi Joe
The As5600’s can be programmed up to three times in terms of setting total angle. I am planing on using diametric magnets as they are a requirement for the 5600’s I bought a sample and the programmer from RS some time ago as in re designing my chair mounted collective. Really nice sensors. The magnets will mount on the rotational axis and the sensor will be fixed. There is a nice sample circuit on the AMS web site which I will use as a reference for it.
I will have a look at the 16000m design although I think o will probably stay with 1 sensor per axis. With these sensors I can measure the total travel rotation and then program them after to get a perfect full sensor range for the exact total rotation.

Now all I need to do is negotiate with the wife to get time to actually work on it 😂

I’m based in the south of England near basingstoke.

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