Dual rotary encoders in Knobster and other (Arduino based)

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Detlef
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Dual rotary encoders in Knobster and other (Arduino based)

#1 Post by Detlef »

Hi,

I love using the Knobster a lot. Action in the cockpit feels close to having real hardware instruments. Still, I want to expand my cockpit with additional hardware, especially rotary encoders. Not often, but still so, the Knobster (at least mine) misses clicks. I mean, sometimes if I turn the knobster just one click, there is no reaction that shows on the instrument, e.g. a radio when setting a frequency. I wonder, if this is, because some signal edges may not be noted by the Arduiono, because it is doing something else at the time. Or in other words, maybe this can be improved by using the interrupt input of the Arduino. Is the standard software, that I can flash into the Arduiono using interrrupts?

Another reason causing missed clicks might be that the mechanical detents are not 100% exact with underlying sensors!? This would mean, I don't need interrupts because they would not improve the behaviour.

Thank you
Detlef

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Sling
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Re: Dual rotary encoders in Knobster and other (Arduino based)

#2 Post by Sling »

Hi Detlef,

I’m guessing from the content of what you posted that you have a DIY knobster. I did a short video a while back on the performance difference I saw between a DIY knobster and the Sim innovations GEN2 knobster. I found the new knobster performed much better. The obvious benefits it has are a dedicated native USB processor and the use of a good quality dual encoder. By comparison the DIY version I made used a Nano with an encoder that I suspect is not as good a quality. I guess the benefit of the DIY method is you can use the same encoder as the factory knobster and also add some hardware debounce of your liking if you want. The only difference would then just be the processor and the code used in each. Corjan/Ralph should be able to comment on the pros and cons of each code implementation.

Tony

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jph
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Re: Dual rotary encoders in Knobster and other (Arduino based)

#3 Post by jph »

Hi Tony,
when you mention a 'dedicated native usb processor' - are you saying the later knobster is HID ?
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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Re: Dual rotary encoders in Knobster and other (Arduino based)

#4 Post by jph »

Detlef wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:04 pm Hi,

I love using the Knobster a lot. Action in the cockpit feels close to having real hardware instruments. Still, I want to expand my cockpit with additional hardware, especially rotary encoders. Not often, but still so, the Knobster (at least mine) misses clicks. I mean, sometimes if I turn the knobster just one click, there is no reaction that shows on the instrument, e.g. a radio when setting a frequency. I wonder, if this is, because some signal edges may not be noted by the Arduiono, because it is doing something else at the time. Or in other words, maybe this can be improved by using the interrupt input of the Arduino. Is the standard software, that I can flash into the Arduiono using interrrupts?

Another reason causing missed clicks might be that the mechanical detents are not 100% exact with underlying sensors!? This would mean, I don't need interrupts because they would not improve the behaviour.

Thank you
Detlef
Hi Detelf,
I must confess I have no idea what the latest knobster is using but if was me I would definitely be using interrupts - however - I simply do not know.
I would be absolutely amazed though if the encoder make/type made any real difference. :o :shock:
They are all of damn good quality and I have tested a hell of a lot. Any real difference would probably come down to mtbf. in that case, for a commercial product where warranty is needed (2 years in the EU) then it would be appropriate for the manufacturer of the Knobster to purchase a suitably warranted unit that is readily available. Price isn't really an issue as the selling price will not make much difference to sales as it is a specific and one off device.
Joe
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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Sling
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Re: Dual rotary encoders in Knobster and other (Arduino based)

#5 Post by Sling »

jph wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:10 am Hi Tony,
when you mention a 'dedicated native usb processor' - are you saying the later knobster is HID ?
HID No. I mean it’s pure USB and not serial to USB. Plug and Play everywhere. This is no special information I’m privy to but just information that has previously been communicated on these forums, wiki etc.

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jph
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Re: Dual rotary encoders in Knobster and other (Arduino based)

#6 Post by jph »

Sling wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:49 am
jph wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:10 am Hi Tony,
when you mention a 'dedicated native usb processor' - are you saying the later knobster is HID ?
HID No. I mean it’s pure USB and not serial to USB. Plug and Play everywhere. This is no special information I’m privy to but just information that has previously been communicated on these forums, wiki etc.
Ah, ok. thanks. In that case it must be CDC.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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Sling
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Re: Dual rotary encoders in Knobster and other (Arduino based)

#7 Post by Sling »

jph wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:19 am I would be absolutely amazed though if the encoder make/type made any real difference. :o :shock:
They are all of damn good quality and I have tested a hell of a lot.
I’ve seen differences for sure. At the end of the day the cheaper end units that tend to be used in flight sim are mechanical switches and therefore can vary in quality like any normal mechanical switch can. Perhaps this is more noticeable when operated at speed. The other thing that I think you could put into the quality discussion is the feel of the thing.

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Sling
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Re: Dual rotary encoders in Knobster and other (Arduino based)

#8 Post by Sling »

jph wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:01 am
Sling wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:49 am
jph wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:10 am Hi Tony,
when you mention a 'dedicated native usb processor' - are you saying the later knobster is HID ?
HID No. I mean it’s pure USB and not serial to USB. Plug and Play everywhere. This is no special information I’m privy to but just information that has previously been communicated on these forums, wiki etc.
Ah, ok. thanks. In that case it must be CDC.
Thinking about this some more I’m actually now not sure :?: . Perhaps it is HID if there is a class of device that it sits under. The reason I’m now doubting what I posted is the available library that supports using the knobster for other applications outside of AM.

Detlef
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Re: Dual rotary encoders in Knobster and other (Arduino based)

#9 Post by Detlef »

@Sling
Hi Tony,
I do have the very official Knobster ordered from Sim Innovations, HARDWARE__KNOBSTER_V2, ordered nine or so months ago. My question still stands, does it use interrupts or another method to make sure, it does not miss a click?

I do not want to build Knobsters. My intension is to put about four dual and two single rotary encoders in my hardware panel. I am not sure whether an Arduino Mega is fast enough to scan the encoders. In addtion it will scan other buttons, set LED states and communicate with the PC.

In general my impression is, the Arduino is darn fast. That was my impression, coming from a very old controller (called BASIC stamp) I used in my old cockpit.


@jph
Hi Joe,
but you are probably right. Interrupts make sense.


Thank you
Detlef

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Ralph
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Re: Dual rotary encoders in Knobster and other (Arduino based)

#10 Post by Ralph »

Are you using the latest plugin? It can also be the dropping of network messages. The best way to test that is with a print, so not with the simulator.
We've sold quite a few, I'm not aware of any skipping on the official Knobster. At least not with normal use. If you spin it (unrealistically) fast then it might skip a little.

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