Radio panel with hardware encoders

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flyatr
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:53 am

Re: Radio panel with hardware encoders

#11 Post by flyatr »

Flyatr, btw I'm interested to know how you manage the interface between your dial and the AM gauge, by using Key2Mouse, Fsuipc control?
At first I went down this road sending mouse clicks with Autohotkey but I don't like the performance. Now the encoders go through a LeoBodnar card directly to FSX. Not interfacing the AM gauge at all, it just reads back the values from the sim. The only downside is I have to stick with the standard FSX functionality, no extras like memory banks and such.

I have slightly modified my design so I have to do less machining and also the refraction is less. Added a small felt layer on the back. ... and before you ask, yes one encoder got misaligned! :p
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Ralph
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Re: Radio panel with hardware encoders

#12 Post by Ralph »

You can store data and write frequencies to variables, so I think there should be something possible. Use NAV1_RADIO_SET with the selected frequency for example.
We made a radio like that for X-Plane. It used the persistence function for storing frequencies, the radio could hold about 8 frequencies.

flyatr
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Re: Radio panel with hardware encoders

#13 Post by flyatr »

Yes I did that too in my Collins Radio (not yet submitted). I was talking about hardware buttons. If I want to control the AM gauge I have to either make mouse macros or go through FSX with it's limited variables.

JackZ
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Re: Radio panel with hardware encoders

#14 Post by JackZ »

flyatr wrote:Yes I did that too in my Collins Radio (not yet submitted). I was talking about hardware buttons. If I want to control the AM gauge I have to either make mouse macros or go through FSX with it's limited variables.
As I said before, AM needs desperately a mean to have hardware interface, at least through keyboard inputs, to start becoming every cockpit maker's dream!
Maybe in a future version?
Would love to interface AM gauges with a cheap Arduino or a Leobodnar Card, and rotate some hardware dials..

Jacques
My YouTube Chanel on the A320 (Real SOPs by an Airline Pilot IRL):
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 0Q6SBASRqJ

flyatr
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Re: Radio panel with hardware encoders

#15 Post by flyatr »

I'm seeing some progress in my radio panel. Today I finished the first of seven units:

https://www.facebook.com/ATR.72.Simulat ... 5688458510
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russ
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Re: Radio panel with hardware encoders

#16 Post by russ »

JZ

I agree that if cost is not a factor that a physical dial knob is more realistic simulation. The touch screen dials in Air Manager are quite easy to use though and for most applications they are a massive improvement in realism compared to using a mouse. I like to say 90% of the realism for 10% of the cost, although I have no proof of that but only the subjective opinion of a pilot with over 40 years in the cockpit and over 23,000 flight hours. There is an added advantage beyond cost too in that Air Manager panels can be configured to match the layout of the various airplanes you might want fly and not just that as the physical panel as built. Obviously for knobs that are used mostly in pre-flight or that are only infrequently used ( eg. a pressurization control panel) touch screen control seems like a good choice. For highly used knobs (Autopilot MCP , Radios ) the investment in hardware is probably a reasonable investment.

I find that I can control the B737 Autopilot MCP just fine with touch control but it takes a bit more attention than it does in the real airplane. The issue is that during prolonged changes an un-watched finger can drift off the rotation axis of the knob. With a real knob one grabs the knob and starts twisting and the eyes are diverted to the item being moved (heading bug for example) and the twist continues until the desired position is reached. With touch control, once the finger starts rotating around the knob to start the bug movement and the eyes focus on the thing being changed, the circular rotation of the finger can drift and the circle may no longer pass around the center of the knob. The bug then no longer continues to advance but just moves back and forth during each rotation.

I think as AIr Manager adds hardware support in the future I will favor a hybrid of touch screen and physical hardware. Choosing which knobs add the most value for the cost. For example I think a B737 Overhead panel, not used much while in flight during normal operations, could easily remain as an all touch screen panel.

The cost of an HD touch screen panel ( < US$ 300) is about the cost of only a couple Saitek radio panels but can offer much more functionality and versatility with Air Manager
Russ Barlow
Air Manager Evangelist

JackZ
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Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:02 pm

Re: Radio panel with hardware encoders

#17 Post by JackZ »

Russ,

Completely agree with you regarding the touch panel usefulness (budgetwise) for seldom used parts of a cockpit such as an overhead. I like also the easy change of configuration in a touch panel. As I recall touch panels are what is used in real procedure trainers before going to the full FTD with all the bells and whistles...

As for a MCP, HSI bugs or for Gpses such as Garmin, at least dials are absolutely without equivalent, provided one can achieve the same tactile feedback, such as acceleration.
I hate having to turn an encoder forever to have the OBS moving only of 180 degrees.
The problem is that FSX and probably Xplane do NOT emulate the real behavior of their mechanical counterpart in terms of dial movements, based on gears.

The FlyATR hybrid approach is really an interesting idea IMHO, leaving the electronic part to the screen displayed by AM and focusing on the dials only. And easy to reconfigure also, just remove the module, and replace it by another one.
That's what I'm working on my sim, the main dials and buttons are in fact incorporated in the MIP which is specific to each plane I fly(be 350 and Baron58 mainly). It' s a Quick change setup, I only need less than 5 minutes to change from one plane to another. For a Big Iron this would be different, but I seldom fly on these birds due to time constraints.

Hope AM will implement in the near future at least some sort of keyboard input, so we could use real hardware through Key2mouse Or Autohotkey for example.

FlyAtr I guessed that you keyed in inputs directly into Fsx using a Bu0386X which behaves like a joystick?

Jacques
My YouTube Chanel on the A320 (Real SOPs by an Airline Pilot IRL):
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 0Q6SBASRqJ

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MarkH
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Re: Radio panel with hardware encoders

#18 Post by MarkH »

JackZ wrote: I hate having to turn an encoder forever to have the OBS moving only of 180 degrees.
The problem is that FSX and probably Xplane do NOT emulate the real behavior of their mechanical counterpart in terms of dial movements, based on gears.
The solution I have adopted is to use encoder controls with a central push switch. So turning the encoder gives fine adjustment, while push-and-turn gives a coarse adjustment. 'Coarse' can be anything you want - I use 10 degrees for the HDG bug, which just calls the requisite FSX function 10 times. I use Leo Bodnar BBI-32 boards and CTS-288V encoders. (I don't know if you can get low-profile encoders with the centre-push for the application shown here.)
MarkH

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flyatr
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:53 am

Re: Radio panel with hardware encoders

#19 Post by flyatr »

The motivation for my build is really all about cost. I don't have access to laser, CNC and to have panels made by someone is not for free and of course it's fun to build your own stuff. I also don't have touch screens other than an Android tablet. I managed to connect my tablet as a wireless and even as USB monitor and ran Air Manager gauges on it but the performance is unacceptable.

The aspect of touching real knobs and switches is also very important. I use encoders with button, too. Like this I can do the freq. transfer and audio enable/disable. They are hooked up to a Leo Bodnar card. I then use a lua script run by FSUIPC to speed them up for faster adjustment. Basically I count the number of turns per second and repeat the command e.g. 5 times. Every second this will be reset so you can fine adjust.

If you're interested this is the far from perfect code:

Code: Select all

-- speed up encoder increments / decrements

local counter = 0
local repetition = 1

----------------------------------------------
function altEncoderMinus(keycode, shifts)
	Execute(65893)		-- AP_ALT_VAR_DEC
end

function altEncoderPlus(keycode, shifts)
	Execute(65892)		-- AP_ALT_VAR_INC
end
----------------------------------------------

function Execute(fsxControl) 
	for n = 1, repetition do		-- repeat the command  
		ipc.control(fsxControl)		-- send fsx action 
	end
	counter = counter + 1
end

function resetCounter()
	if counter > 5 then						-- speed > 5 encoder turns per second
	  repetition = 5
	  counter = 5							-- limit the counter for better performance
	else
	  repetition = 1
	end
	
	counter = counter - 4					-- fast mode will not end apruptly
	if counter < 0 then	counter = 0 end
end

event.timer(1000,"resetCounter")

-- get encoder events
event.button("A", 7,"altEncoderMinus")	-- controller A button 7
event.button("A", 6,"altEncoderPlus")
I guess this could be implemented in Air Manager as well.

flyatr
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:53 am

Re: Radio panel with hardware encoders

#20 Post by flyatr »

Some more pictures of my build.
r1.jpg
r2.jpg
r3.jpg
r4.jpg

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