fs2020 on XBOX .. is this the end... ?

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jph
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fs2020 on XBOX .. is this the end... ?

#1 Post by jph »

Dumbing down fs2020 to work on the xbox - seems to be the end of the game for this effort. This is where the future lies for them, as a console game.
Third party ? yeah, ok...... as in forget it really.
Well, it was poor while it lasted.
RIP fs2020. Another MS FS appears to descend into dust. :roll:
It appears even some hardware peripherals are requiring a 'special' version - as in adding damn console buttons....

Like the Honeycomb.
Alpha Flight Controls

Honeycomb has revealed that a new version of the Alpha Flight Controls yoke is due to be launched in the second quarter of 2021. As well as working on PC, the new yoke also adds Xbox support. Please note, the old Alpha yoke will be discontinued.

According to Nicki Repenning, CEO of Honeycomb Aeronautical, the updates to the yoke are mostly internal for adding Xbox Series X|S compatibility. It will also be fitted with Xbox buttons, but Nicki explained they are discreetly embossed to retain the authentic look and feel of realistic aircraft controls. The retail price for the new yoke will remain at $249.99 (£194 approx) despite the new features and Xbox support.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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olof
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Re: fs2020 on XBOX .. is this the end... ?

#2 Post by olof »

No I don't think this is the end at all.
I see it as a new beginning.
I now have pretty much everything I had working in Xplane, working on FS2020. That is very fast less than 1 year since FS2020 was published, and now with PMDG developing the DC6 we have a truly great "study level" plane, I am sure many will follow.
Also bear in mind that X-plane has a IOS version of XP, does that make it worse?
I am hoping that XBOX will get a lot of attention to Simming, and more than a few will want more in depth simulation so some will become cockpit builders. Is that not a big positive for this hobby?
I find it hard to go back to XP or P3D after flying around in FS2020. Yes there have been some big glitches but the overall feeling of being there is overwhelming in FS2020.
Just like in real flying the atmosphere and scenery is stunning and this in my opinion is missing in all other PC sims.
As I said before this sim is only 1 year old and look at how fantastic it is already. Also I really like the way ASOBO and MS are so open and communicative with us simmers.
This of course is just my opinion and I don't mean to speak for anyone else.
I can understand frustration if you have a lot of time and money invested in a cockpit and it is very complicated and possible expensive to rebuild to use in this new sim. But I have actually found it pretty easy. AM 4.xx is working great for me at least.

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jph
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Re: fs2020 on XBOX .. is this the end... ?

#3 Post by jph »

Hi Olof,
It is good to hear your thoughts on this.
I think X-P IOS is a red Herring and isn't a primary development area and never will be. I still have X-P 9 on my android tablet and it is great fun for a few minutes whilst waiting in the car etc. XBOX is a different ball game, MS see it as the future for gaming.

I think the question one has to ask is - are MS SERIOUSLY going to concentrate all the effort into two versions of FS ??? - one for XBOX and one for PC ? :shock: :? . My thoughts are that, initially they will develop both as it cons - err I mean - encourages - 3rd party developers to produce great conversions. But, it will very soon - maybe in a year or so - become almost exclusively XBOX orientated in development. That immediately brings in limitations due to hardware constraints and 'add-ons'.
I can see MS offering a range of superb 'add-ons' (that fit their XBOX criteria), but available via the 'app store' / XBOX store. Hence, all the developments taking place by the existing add on developers for PC will be forced (by the market) to make their add-ons fully compatible with the XBOX version and also available via the 'store' - free or paid. That by itself would, I believe, almost certainly mean dumbing down the quality and having consequences in having to pass a minimum standard to even be available at all to be offered as an addition.
It will be interesting to actually see FS running on an XBOX, but I am not expecting miracles or anywhere (at all) near high end PC performance. In fact, if the experience was indeed 'good enough' then for MS it would be a total win win as the XBOX is less than half the price of even a reasonable GPU for a PC.
In that case, rather than be seen as a stepping stone to a PC based 'high end' experience, it would be the norm and there would be very little point in any PC development taking place - by both the game producers and the add on producers. However, even if the experience on XBOX is really good, then the limitations in respect of add on pre-requisite requirements / standards would be totally XBOX orientated. Any external hook ups to, say, home cockpits or external devices would, I believe be simply not viable due to the Xbox hardware limitations.
I believe that ALL additions to XBOX FS would be via the store.
I also believe the future for XBOX is - in MS's opinion, more or less totally 'cloud based'. Cloud based gaming is like VR, the ' next big thing ' . where as pundits have being saying that about VR since the 1990's but it is only the last 10 years or so that the cloud based 'revolution' in gaming was 'just around the corner', and still is, and probably still will be in 2, 3 or 5 years. Certainly there is limited cloud based offerings in use today, such as parts of MSFS streamed geo visuals but the shear HP needed to get the most out of them is incredible, and also a decent internet connection - which very few people have, and will only decline rapidly if more people were to try to utilise it. The internet service to the home has limited bandwidth to mere mortals. That is rapidly getting eaten up in with 'streaming' services offering totally unnecessary higher and higher streaming rates (bandwidth usage) for damn TV streaming services. (and that is not even touching on the issues (HUGE issues) of latency !)

It is a self defeating vicious circle where to be able to offer something 'cloud' based' is simply not scalable.
As for home cockpit uses, external monitor support, things like AM etc, then I don't see a future in XBOX at all.
And then we have the 'all new' (read - get rid of the crap people don't use and try to cash in on other stuff) WIN 11 :?
Oh wait - with BUILT IN XBOX game pass support that is no longer an 'option' as they intend to push it completely.

It is an interesting 'vision'. But, I am old enough to have seen the home 'computer revolution' from the very beginning - not as a kid, but as an adult - and to have been actively involved. Unfortunately, I only see this as - mostly - a backwards step. :cry:
All in my opinion of course! .
And just to add - I would love to proven wrong. !
Joe
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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olof
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Re: fs2020 on XBOX .. is this the end... ?

#4 Post by olof »

Good morning JPH,

You make some very good points and observations. I have no idea how this will play out, life is interesting.

I have a more optimistic view of technology development. I too have worked both in software and hardware development since the 70's actually. My first computer with a very primitive sim was the TI99-4A. Then Commodore and early PC's later I went completely Mac. Last 5 years I am back to Windows.

I really don't see any of these changes as negative, every change has been more realistic and immersive. I am actually very surprised at how quickly ASOBO/MS has developed the SDK and how quickly AM is working in FS2020. I may be wrong but I don't think they will abandon the PC for Xbox, but I do believe that PC's will drastically change. Just like Mac OS is becoming more IOS like in every update and IOS more Mac OS like. I can see everything merging into much more powerful VR machines, who knows what gaming/simming in 10 years will look like.

I do think the cloud is inevitable and the USA is really lacking in democratizing true high speed affordable connections. But this is bound to change.

I see positives in FS2020 announced support for multi screens and more "pop outs", as well as more advances in the SDK.

Also if FS2020 becomes only Xbox, that is a huge opportunity for P3D and XP. I FS2020 keeps going I see a tough time for them ahead, either catch up on graphics or loose market placement.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Of course interesting times is a Chinese curse.

All the best enjoy simming as you do it now or how it will be in the future. Life is a journey and so is simming in my opinion anyway.

JackZ
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Re: fs2020 on XBOX .. is this the end... ?

#5 Post by JackZ »

The Store thing is becoming a real problem, as it is run by Microsoft directly, pretty much like the Apple Store with their own criteriaes of eligibility.
I know for example that the FBW A32NX development team is having talks with ASOBO/MS about having the A 32NX mod ported directly to the Ms Store, for easier access and straightforward installation (will still be free though) and the upcoming Xbox version is becoming an issue of concern for the dev team.

The main concern being that due to the heavily reliance of MSFS on Javascript and HTML3 based instruments that are quite resource intensive, there might be performance issues on consoles with some hardcore addons, including on the latest Xbox series X.

And as @jph said, the risk is that the MSFS product will tend towards the smallest common denominator in terms of features developed.
Time will tell, but one has to be cautious.

As per the competition, I don't really know about P3D, but I know that Xplane has bit the bullet and is working hard to try and improve the overall graphics quality on their upcoming V12 version. Some leaked views of XP12 are quite impressive already.

My 10 cents

Jacques
My YouTube Chanel on the A320 (Real SOPs by an Airline Pilot IRL):
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 0Q6SBASRqJ

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jph
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Re: fs2020 on XBOX .. is this the end for the PC version... ?

#6 Post by jph »

Just about sums it up ... It would appear to agree with everything I have been saying.

The PC version will be the 'same' as the XBOX version as far as development goes. Hence yes, will be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator - the XBOX.
XBOX is the future. Good night Vienna.
check 43:17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdhEbrN ... tSimulator
XBOX will, of course, be amazing for triple monitor support and interfacing to home cockpits - yeah, effing right! - sarcasm - and pigs might fly, and all the other crap they promised to con users into buying it. Ignore all the crap they said before. Typical MS. Nothing new.

They (MS ASOBO) are now going ahead with the whole game as 100% XBOX, but, for those unfortunate enough not to own a game console, it will run on a PC as long as the PC can emulate an xbox kiddie console.. The end of the road for the cockpit build enthusiast ? .. would seem so.
Emulating a kiddie console with fixed hardware on a PC user base with multiple hardware is difficult - that is an understatement !. so that is even worse news for the PC guys. YOUR excellent hardware will need to keep (backwardly) conforming to the old XBOX standard. I am sure MS will offer 'compatibility' checkers for download for PC users to see if their great hardware can 100% conform to out of date XBOX hardware. Hmmm.

Is it unexpected ? absolutely not for anyone who has ever followed FS and their failure to deliver promises and roadmaps.
Can we expect XBOX store to host things like AM ? and also, conversely, AM to be actually viable to XBOX only ? - I cannot see how as the hardware on the XBOX simply doesn't offer the ability.
They have said that third parties 'can of course' continue to offer PC only (non store addons), (yet, in their words) most are moving to the 'store' ....
However, as there will be no dual development in the future - meaning - No specific PC version of fs2020 and also an XBOX specific version - it means it will be XBOX only that 'can' also run on PC.... The PC is simply an option to run XBOC games on within the given constrains of the emulator.

but - totally - not unexpected.
Joe. CISSP, MSc.

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